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Since the wave of 'innovation' seems to be headed in the direction of "Let's just give the players simplified dev tools and let THEM make the content" (see Spore, The Sims for more on this) --
I wonder why no one has yet to develop and implement a strong player-created quest / task system as a central feature for an MMORPG. Say, for instance, that a crafter needs some materials. In most games today, either he'd have a guildmate run out and fetch them for him, or he'd go out and harvest them himself, because it's just easier that way. If an NPC wants materials, they can give out XP and item rewards for quests - why can't a player? Here's the basic idea: BOX: Quest Name Enter the name of the quest here. Simple, no? BOX: Description Enter a description (100-1000 words) of the quest. This is what you need done. DROPDOWN: Difficulty Rate the difficulty of the quest you have described. (EASY, MODERATE, DIFFICULT, VERY DIFFICULT) BUTTON: Assign Quest to Target Select the player you want to give the quest to and hit this button. The quest is added to the target player's log. BUTTON: Quest Complete Hit this button once the quest is completed. This will immediately assign an amount of experience based on the player's level and a multiplier defined by the difficulty rating. WINDOW: Item Rewards Like a trade window. Drag items here to be given to the player once the Quest Complete button is pressed. ------------------------ Now, I can think of two major problems with this idea. #1: Quest givers will always rate quests at the highest difficulty, even if the quest is extremely easy, to maximize XP gain. #2: Some players will get the rewards traded to them, and then will not hit the Quest Complete button to reward the other player. I believe #2 will be less of an issue, because if a player makes a habit of giving out quests and then not completing them to give the rewards, other players will catch on and begin to boycott the offender. Also, there will be an 'Open Quest' log. However, you cannot require that the only way to remove the quest from the Open Quest log is to Complete it, because then you will have players who do not ever finish the quests, and no one wants the quests hanging around. All in all, this requires community cooperation. I think it might be possible. Am I giving the MMO community too much credit? What do you guys think of this mechanic? -------- "Give a man a fire, and he is warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he is warm for the rest of his life." |
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Ah yes a good idea yet very difficult to regulate or control. Yes it would be amazing if people had a sense of balance and fairness. However many people will use the system in its current explaination to power level.
"Kill 1 fluffy bunny" Difficulty: Very hard Reward: 10,000 xp Pass those quests off to your friends and they do the same for you, it'll turn into a giant rabbit stabbing fest. Rules would of course need to be thrown in to regulate each and every little thing in the game. Experienced based on creature level or drop rate and that kind of thing. Damn nice if someone worked out a method to make it work but strong balancing would be needed and close eye kept on the system. The best and in my opinion most enjoyable idea I've seen that has some relation to this is a bounty system. Put a price on the head of a player you don't like and have him hunted and killed by fellow players. You put up your own gold so you can't throw around bounties on just about anyone and it helps encourage pvp and limits this pvp to people who either deserve a horrible death or have been involved in pvp in the past. |
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PVP is all well and good, but my thoughts are actually turned more towards getting crafters/harvesters and adventurers more closely tied together. Right now they're totally independent - I'd like to make it so that they could work together in a more meaningful way.
In case you can't tell, I'm a huge co-op advocate. I'd much rather play a game *with* someone than *against* someone. To be clear, I would have the XP rewards for player generated quests based on the character level. I wish there was some automatic way to regulate the difficulty of the quest. If anyone can think of a feasible way to automatically determine how difficult a particular task might be (or a way that would not lend itself so easily to abuse) I'd love to hear it. -------- "Give a man a fire, and he is warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he is warm for the rest of his life." |
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S.U.N. will have this.
I like pie ! |
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I'm a middle of the road player I love my co-op and love my pvp. I immerse myself in both aspects of any given game if they are available. That being said yeh I see where you are coming from and it would be enjoyable to see something like this come about. Perhaps the key lies within economy; npc prices being driven by economy and what quests are being done. For example implementing a system where if players gather x ore they get a reward. The npcs then have the product that was handed to them to sell off. the higher their stock the lower the price thus benifiting the crafters. The more adventurers doing the quest the lower the price for the crafter/trader.
I realize this doesn't capture your desire for player created quests, but it could help develope the adventurer/crafter synergy. |
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Originally posted by LordKyellanIt really isn't something that is new. Many years ago, mud creators would give the top players god mode to create content within games. So the basis is there and has been played with but not within the 3d medium. SoR added something which might have included quests, but can't recall at this moment. There are upsides and downsides. Looks at the quality of chatting within say the barrens chat in WoW and then imagine those players creating content (Chuck Norris quests).... :( |
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The idea is not bad but it is too hard to control. If a player can somehow give free xp to a friend it will be abused. Imagine player A creates the quest: get me a diamond, very hard. Player B gets the quest and gives player A (quest giver) the diamond. A clicks onto 'Quest complete', trades the diamond back to player B and starts the same quest again.
If you give normal rewards (item/money) for a quest you have just created a 'want list'. People can look at what people want to buy and try to get the items to sell them to the 'quest giver'. The problem is: it would be easier to just use an auction house for found items/ressources. The highest bidder will get the item etc. EvE Online has got something similar. Here you can create contracts (trade agreements, auctions..) and stuff like transport missions (transport goods from A to B for x money). An open market will make player quests for gaining ressources and items redundant. --- |
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It requires a mature community, sadly you don't ever have full control over who subscribes and who does not.
MMOs require a lot of rules in a games where you desire to give a player freedom this is why sadly so many fail. (bored at work ;-)) |
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In a way, vendors and auction houses are a bit like player created quests
 Its sorta like saying... "I need gold, and I will give you an item for it!" and then people go... "I want that item and I have gold!" then they press the "buy item" and tada, quest to collect gold is completed and they have a reward for it, an item!I really like how in some games you have bounty quests. I think EVE does this where you can put someone up for bounty and people are rewarded for killing them. SWG has something of a bounty system too although that isnt really player driven because NPCs put the quest up on the terminals. I'm all for player created content though!  I wish the mmorpgs gave us more reasons to pay other players to complete tasks for them... Like if I were a merchant and a band of baddies kept raiding my shop everytime I logged out (or while I was logged in!) then I would want to put up a quest to eliminate the baddies' camp. If traveling were difficult and resources were more area specific then crafters would often need people to bring their goods from one location to another. If death losses were significant and PvP were more open the people would have more reason to hire assassins to kill their competitors or enemies...But there arent a lot of players out there who want high death penalties, long travel distances, and NPC thieves constantly raiding their shops.  Anyways, if these things were in a game, players would just have their friends and guildmates take care of the problem for them, or just login to another account or character and do the things there. So it comes back to the original idea, where you are submitting content that other players can play. The devs could just give any player who wants it the quest making program they set up to help the quest making team put these things together and say 'hey! throw some quests together, submit em, and we might put em in the game!' The players would stumble around trying to figure out how to use the program, and they might produce some fun quests. The quality of the quests would be questionable though, it leaves room for exploits, and it is probably difficult to 'send a quest' to the dev team that one makes on their home compie The quest maker itself needs to connect to the game server almost surely... Its all too much.You do have games like Pirates of the Burning Seas though that lets people model ships and submit them. Over 40 ships created by players! These ships look amazing too... Even better than the ones the PotBS devs made. http://www.flyinglab.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30 |
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I belive Ryzom has this...actualy you can create your own world/level with this game.
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So I had an idea on this subject.
What if this were combined with an open-skill advancement system (Ultima Online)? Rather than using levels and classes (which I believe are outdated anyway) if one were to use a skill-based system, I think that this would work even better. In that case, there is no difficulty rating and no experience gain at all from any quests. In this system, questing is a way to keep you involved in the game while your character utilizes his/her skills to advance. If, rather than levels or experience, money is the goal - we no longer have an exploit system since the quest creator will have to give away their own money as a reward - it won't just come out of thin air. Yes, okay. You're still going to have some totally useless people and quests. These, however, will likely come to be avoided in time by the more mature players, and the kiddies can play amongst themselves until they get bored. However, this would allow guildies to even spin their own questlines within an already-created world. You could potentially have a self-appointed QuestMaster whose sole job is to cook up creative new quest lines for guild mates. Now what we have, instead of a quick-leveling exploit, is an entirely story-based way to help the players create their own content. Yea or nay? -------- "Give a man a fire, and he is warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he is warm for the rest of his life." |
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Levels increasing increate character's skills. Skill based system also increases character skills. On a basic level, they are the same although people feel "better" about one over the other. You have to look at what you want the quests to accomplish and how to balance the costs of it. Magic items, the creator may have to supply them. Money is supplied by the creator with some extra costs and limits as well. Experience and/or skills, what if the creator has to give away some of his skill or experience in a way which makes resonable sense and isn't power leveling. That might mean a percentage of expense. EX: The 60th level monk gives a 100K experience to his quest. This quest is meant for a 3rd level but 100K experience would make the 3rd level character like 30th level. But 100k experience is 1% of the level 60 monks experience to advance, so the 3rd level character get a 1% xp payout. I like quest systems, but the rewards and benefits are the problem. Now, if they were used as part of a character advancement, such as you are a member of the city board for the advancement of bricklayers, then quests may be given to you to hand out to others. |
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I believe there are two ways for this to work. The player describes the quest, and sets out the parameters. The game decides how difficult this is, and an adaquate prize of XP. The player can then choose to give out coins and items as they see fit. However, what they show as a prize must be given before the quest is taken, isolated and given automatically to the questor, otherwise there is room for abuse. However, this system is very clinical, and honestly, I don't see the benefit over NPC given quests.
The other method, and the one I would put myself behind, is that of removing the formality of quests. Get rid of a quest log, quest markers, and a journal. Why is it that in Dungeons and Dragons, it's an epic quest to go to the lair of a dragon and slaughter it, it's fun all along the way, from getting the quest, to figuring it out, planning it out, recruiting others, fighting together and getting the rewards, moral or fiscal. Why is that? In an MMORPG, fighting together is fun, and getting the rewards is good. In Dungeons and Dragons we have to investigate, use our heads. In MMORPGs, it's a chore, it's run here, speak to this, get this, kill that. We know what we have to do, instead of figuring it out for ourselves. Make the quest system less formal and more like standard conversation and trade, and it'll be much, much more interesting, and even if it is to do with kill x of y, it'll feel more interesting and involving. Now, how does this rant relate to player given quests? Well, follow the philosophy of Ultima Online and say that less is more. Don't give any mechanics for quests given by players. Just allow them to set out tasks for each other if someone is able to do something they want to have done. Sure, no XP, but personally, I think that just is so open to abuse it's not funny, so it's probably a good thing. When players work out things for themselves, it gives a sense of community interaction. A positive, in my books. Either way, quests should be fun, and currently, in pretty much all games, they feel like structured grinding... what gives? |
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Games already have player quests built it. When reading the Age of Conan FAQs they stated something that proved this. While there are no quest exp rewards or even skills gained for doing these there is a money exchange. You are going to be offline so you hire people to gather materials for you. You are getting ganked by a player over and over, so you hire somebody to get him back for you. In games like Conan where players drop something to hold as a trophy you would just bring it back to the player quest giver. The players head would be evidence and you would collect a money reward.
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i think its a great idea, and should be standard in all mmorpg's maybe not the xp being handed out, but the player created jobs is a must.
i imagine maybe a town gazette where people can advertize jobs, and when listing the job a time limit is also quoted so if the task is incomplete then it fails and is removed,. also a ranking system ala ebay, but if say the lister has to pay the gazette the reward, and the questor has to give the items to the gazette , there would be no renage ing, the gazette would work as an automated escrow.
i feel player created tasks, would remove the burden of game makers adding in a load of basically mundane quests leaving them to concentrate on more imaginitive game play. i always felt part of questsa in games was to show players what there is to do and how to do it. so there is still a need for dev made quests.
also i think a trade market like the stock market , u list the items u want to sell how many and how much . money and items are also held in escrow by the market. people can leave bids and asks, over night or all week , and when they log in next maybe the required items are in their bank.
a whole lot of bottle neck for crafting smithing etc is in the aquiring, and selling items, so an online trading market is also a must have.
you could have the game decide what xp is given for the quest, / job / task. not come from another player. also say someone had a few 100 logs and wanted staffs made but didnt have the required skill, maybe if they put the logs into holding at a crafters guild, the questor could come along ask if theres any jobs going, see theres 100 logs need doing, ( he cant take them out of the guild tho ) then logs get crafted, and a percentage is givne to the questor as a reward? he never gets the oportunity to remove them from guild head quaters tho.
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fournials
Novice Member
Joined: 3/06/04
Don't go gentle into that peaceful night, |
The only way I can imagine this working would be by removing the XP and Item parts. You sure could issue a "shopping list" quest or a "wanted dead" quest, but all in all, YOU, as the quest giver, should be the one giving something for it. There should be no additional XP than that normally gained through killing beasties or PCs in order to achieve it. "Wanted dead" quests would be easy to implement. You just drop a random loot linked to the player, like ears in Diablo 2, and move on. The single problem I can imagine for this is abuse. You can't have two dozen ears cut down, and therefore shouldn't. So other things would need to be cut down after the first two ears came off, potentially reducing stats of the character. Abusing this system would then come in the form of someone spamming "wanted dead" quests on, a single character, and that would be organized ganking. A way to stop that fest would be to tie the possibility to issue such quests to having been attacked by the player you're issuing it on, like in www.fallensword.com... |
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Llamster
 Novice Member
Joined: 7/01/07
There are three kinds of people in the world, those who can count and those who can''t. |
This is an awesome idea. However, it shouldn't replace in-game quests. You can't really very complicated with this system. How am I going to get my quester to overthrow a government or discover a cure for a deadly disease by killing things and bringing items to me? ____________________ Have played: RuneScape, EQ2 (free trial), Last Chaos, Silk Road, Dungeon Runners. The notion that graphics, or anything else for that matter, are anywhere near as important as gameplay/fun is so utterly ridiculous that anyone who shares such a view should be placed in an asylum. |
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fournials
Novice Member
Joined: 3/06/04
Don't go gentle into that peaceful night, |
It still should be possible, but only through careful planning of LINKED quests... You could probably be able to create a link of quests that would yield some great results, but only through quests that do NOT belong to the "shopping spree" or "wanted dead" types.
Maybe, you could try to add something on the lines of "explore area "quests type? Where you have to roam the area until you discover the entrance to somewhere? What about a "shopping spree" alternative type, where you have to gain access to an object that some NPC or PC possesses? This way, you can decide to switch it yourself to "Kill everybody in sight" or "sneak inside and steal". The interest of the "sneak inside and steal" type would be obvious! Provide an alternative to the Tank archetype. Thiefs would be a valid option, and would provide varied gameplay. An extension from this would be the obvious "assassination" missions. Sneak inside, kill without rousing attention, then sneak outside...
Obviously, this type of gameplay addition would need to be implemented throughout the whole game, but players could REALLY outthrow the basic balance of gameplay simply by issuing that kind of missions, and linking them to PERSONAL objectives not to missionwise objectives...
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Just remove the formality of it. If you're going to trust the playerbase, why not empower them to provide for themselves, instead of providing for them. Make sure that everything drops something which could be given as a trophy, and make sure that players can keep a well organised journal, and make sure one can write on parchment and trade that. Then players can make their own quests very easily. |
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Originally posted by LordKyellan World War II Online has had a player generated mission system since its launch over 5 years ago.
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Whilst a basic "want-list" of some sort being available for players to see would be a good addition to mmorpgs, to really make something like this work really well would take some kind of player government system. If a city needs certain things to function (eg. coal for the furnaces, food for the guards, stone for building projects, hides to make leather etc) then those governing the city can create city quests (or rather tasks) which add to the feeling of community. The materials required could be of differing levels, which would encourage low level gatherers and crafters to get involved, as high level gatherers would get no xp for low level gathering (the xp is gained from the gathering not for completing the task). You could have certain NPCs positioned in the city who give out these tasks. Those in government must look at their finances to work out what reward is set on each task, and raise this level if the work isn't getting done. They could even choose to include items in the rewards. If the developers can add a mechanic that allows them to create bandit or creature threats to the city every so often, the tasks could sometimes include wipe out and destroy the bandits and their base. A game like this would have to have a well balanced, player run economy, but has the potential of creating a real feel of your actions having an impact on the game world.
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