Star Wars Galaxies

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Originally posted by ThaneB

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Originally posted by Fishermage

 

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Originally posted by ThaneB

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Originally posted by ArcAngel3

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Originally posted by ThaneB
 
Thank you for that. Are you calling my entire argument a rant though? I didn't apologize to state that I was defeated and everyone against me was right. I was just saying that I didn't state my opinion originally like I should have. Either way though people would have bashed me anyway.

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Nope, not calling your entire argument a rant.  Just making a confession related to some of my own posts in the past.  I think a lot of us have failed to choose our words carefully from time to time in the heat of the moment.
Also, I think the point about holding grudges is a good one.  Nurturing resentment can have some nasty side effects.  Encouraging people to revinvest in something they enjoy also sounds like a fine suggestion.
Where I respectfully see things differently is that ongoing posts are not all related to resentment or a failure to find something else that's enjoyable.  I see many as well intentioned consumer advocacy.  Granted some people won't appreciate that, but I think many gamers will.

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, gamers appreciate reviews by previous customers. I just think they could write those reviews a little better. I mean come on now, have you read a single review of SWG that dosen't call SOE evil? A better way to state why the game is bad is to list how things were before, and how they are now. Saying SOE is evil makes people sound like lunatics. I'm sorry, but I can't take someone who calls a company evil seriously.  You could just say that SOE is a bad company.
Or you could say one simple statement to those who want to know what SWG is like. " There were major changes in the game, and now it is bad". Very simple and to the point. There is no need to call anybody evil or say that you want to kill someone etc...

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Lying and cheating people IS evil; no it's not bigtime Hitler eveil, but it is certainly evil. Why do you seek to control the speech of others in this way? Why not let people say what they wish?
If you can't handle it, then the internet is really the wrong place for you.
Now, who has said that they REALLy want to kill anyone over this, and meant it? I'd like to see that post.

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Where did you come from?. I sense a   I'd advise you to first look up the word evil . Next lose that attitude. After that become literate so you can read my post properly. I didn't say that people acutally meant that they wanted to kill someone over this. But murders have happened over video-games before, and this argument against the NGE and SOE is getting out of of hand.

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Evil is not something one can LOOK UP -- it has been debated as long as man has been around. If you don't feel lying is evil, and cheating people is evil, you afre entitled to that moral view. We'll have to agree to disagree. I personaly believe that any willful violation of anyone else is evil, and there are degrees of evil, murder is worse than armed robbery, armed robbery is worse than burglary, burglary is worse than cheating, and cheating is worse than lying -- but all are forms of what we call evil.

I've been here all along; thanks for the personal attacks. How about actually dealing with what I have said. I never troll. The only trolling I see here is coming from you, starting with your OP.

Who are YOU to determine when a discussion is out of hand? Again, it seems you have a definite problem with the opinions of others. I suggest you leave the internet at once -- it was designed for peope to actually DISCUSS things.

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Originally posted by ThaneB

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Originally posted by Fishermage

 

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Originally posted by ThaneB

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Originally posted by ArcAngel3
 
 

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Originally posted by ThaneB
 
 

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Originally posted by ArcAngel3
 
 

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Originally posted by hipiap

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Originally posted by kobie173

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That's not what he's saying at all.
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
 
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.

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Ding Ding Ding...winner

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Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate.  He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
 
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading.  If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations. 
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players.  I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends.  I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another.  I'm aware that players didn't do this.  Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC. 
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.

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Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.

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I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall."  Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience.  I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere.  Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
 
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears.  I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met.  These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).

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SOE ruined a great game, but talking to them won't make them change their minds. I mean it's been three years, if they were going to change their minds, they would of done it a few years back when SWG subscriber numbers were starting to diminish. The problem with taking to this to authorities is that mmorpgs are dynamic. They are supposed to always change and be a living world. So you can't you really say that SOE made too many changes, so we deserve our money back.

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Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal.
That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here.

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Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.

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Sorry, I choose to exercise my freedom and post. If you don't like that, or can't handle it perhaps the internet is not for you (no sarcasm either).

Originally posted by Fishermage

 

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Originally posted by ThaneB

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Originally posted by Fishermage

 

 

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Originally posted by ThaneB

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Originally posted by ArcAngel3
 
 

 

 

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Originally posted by ThaneB
 
 

 

 

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Originally posted by ArcAngel3
 
 

 

 

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Originally posted by hipiap

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Originally posted by kobie173

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That's not what he's saying at all.
However, the sheer venom, the completely outrageous statements people make (I believe my favorite was the one that said John Smedley should be jailed), the absolute HATE (yes, HATE) for current SWG players ... all that three years after the fact, is, to be frank, rather pathetic.
 
I've seen people get over very painful divorces in less time than it has taken some of the people on this board to get over pre-CU.

 

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Ding Ding Ding...winner

 

 

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Well tbh I know one guy who thinks Smed should be jailed, but that thinking isn't motivated by hate.  He really just thinks the guy committed fraud on a fairly massive scale, and should be held accountable for that.
 
Also, saying that this is all about something that happened 3 years ago is misleading.  If you look at a number of threads on these boards, you'll notice that people highlight what appears to be a longstanding pattern of poor customer relations. 
Further, I don't know that people feel hatred for current SWG players.  I know I certainly don't, as some of them are my friends.  I do know, however, that it is very divisive when you take something from one group, redesign it and give it to another.  I'm aware that players didn't do this.  Rather this whole target audience conflict was sparked by the actions SOE and LEC. 
Possible solutions to mend this rift have been put forward to SOE and LEC, but they have not been implemented, sadly.

 

 

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Very well said. But the reason I said it was something that happened three years ago, is because it is a game. Games are games, they shouldn't be taking so seriously. The argument against the NGE is really getting out of hand. Just like how there were some real life murders by players in Lineage 2 clans. You may think these threats against SOE employers are all jokes. But you will be surprised how crazy some people let themselves become over a game(ex. The Lineage 2 incidents). You should be angry about the NGE, I'm not telling you not to be, but don't let it make you a mindless person that just wants to destroy SOE and SWG. Control your anger, and be open to other viewpoints. And don't have blind devotion to something.
Thankfully the poster above stated his opinion clearly and well. The only thing I'd have to disagree on is the highlights on poor customer relations by SOE. If you hate SOE don't buy anything from them, that's how you can stop them. You don't have to try to destroy them, they are destroying themselves. Don't talk to them, and watch them fall.

 

 

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I think there's something to the idea, "don't talk to them, and watch them fall."  Talking to them really just adds to the frustration in my experience.  I tried open and respectful communication for months, and it got me nowhere.  Well it got my posts moved, deleted, locked etc.
 
Also, if people are really convinced that an injustice took place, certainly taking the personal vengeance route can only end in tears.  I have posted another thread that explains where people can take their complaints to authorities who are listening, and have the power to intervene if the right conditions are met.  These would not be complaints about a lost video game, however, they would be about money taken via misleading marketting (i.e. fraud allegations).

 

 

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SOE ruined a great game, but talking to them won't make them change their minds. I mean it's been three years, if they were going to change their minds, they would of done it a few years back when SWG subscriber numbers were starting to diminish. The problem with taking to this to authorities is that mmorpgs are dynamic. They are supposed to always change and be a living world. So you can't you really say that SOE made too many changes, so we deserve our money back.

---

 
Actually you CAN argue that; such changes are only allowed, in that the EULA agreement is a non-negotiated contract between partis, only to what would be a reasonable person standard. If the actions of SOE went beyond a reasonable person's standard, then they went beyond what is legal.
That would be up to the authorities and the courts to decide over time; this is a VERY new area of law. We shall see. Regulation is often the result of abuse such as we have seen here.

---

Fair enough, please if your information is correct try to take this up with the authorities( no sarcasm). There's no need to post on the forums, if what you say is true.

---

 

Sorry, I choose to exercise my freedom and post. If you don't like that, or can't handle it perhaps the internet is not for you (no sarcasm either).

You have the right to post, but I'm tired of you posting just to flame me. If you have an actual opinion then post it. I'm sorry, but at the moment I have no clue what you are arguing against.

Originally posted by Fishermage

 

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Originally posted by ThaneB

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Originally posted by Fishermage

 

 

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Originally posted by ThaneB

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Originally posted by ArcAngel3

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Originally posted by ThaneB
 
Thank you for that. Are you calling my entire argument a rant though? I didn't apologize to state that I was defeated and everyone against me was right. I was just saying that I didn't state my opinion originally like I should have. Either way though people would have bashed me anyway.

 

---

Nope, not calling your entire argument a rant.  Just making a confession related to some of my own posts in the past.  I think a lot of us have failed to choose our words carefully from time to time in the heat of the moment.
Also, I think the point about holding grudges is a good one.  Nurturing resentment can have some nasty side effects.  Encouraging people to revinvest in something they enjoy also sounds like a fine suggestion.
Where I respectfully see things differently is that ongoing posts are not all related to resentment or a failure to find something else that's enjoyable.  I see many as well intentioned consumer advocacy.  Granted some people won't appreciate that, but I think many gamers will.

 

 

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, gamers appreciate reviews by previous customers. I just think they could write those reviews a little better. I mean come on now, have you read a single review of SWG that dosen't call SOE evil? A better way to state why the game is bad is to list how things were before, and how they are now. Saying SOE is evil makes people sound like lunatics. I'm sorry, but I can't take someone who calls a company evil seriously.  You could just say that SOE is a bad company.
Or you could say one simple statement to those who want to know what SWG is like. " There were major changes in the game, and now it is bad". Very simple and to the point. There is no need to call anybody evil or say that you want to kill someone etc...

---

 

 

Lying and cheating people IS evil; no it's not bigtime Hitler eveil, but it is certainly evil. Why do you seek to control the speech of others in this way? Why not let people say what they wish?
If you can't handle it, then the internet is really the wrong place for you.
Now, who has said that they REALLy want to kill anyone over this, and meant it? I'd like to see that post.

---

Where did you come from?. I sense a   I'd advise you to first look up the word evil . Next lose that attitude. After that become literate so you can read my post properly. I didn't say that people acutally meant that they wanted to kill someone over this. But murders have happened over video-games before, and this argument against the NGE and SOE is getting out of of hand.

---

 

Evil is not something one can LOOK UP -- it has been debated as long as man has been around. If you don't feel lying is evil, and cheating people is evil, you afre entitled to that moral view. We'll have to agree to disagree. I personaly believe that any willful violation of anyone else is evil, and there are degrees of evil, murder is worse than armed robbery, armed robbery is worse than burglary, burglary is worse than cheating, and cheating is worse than lying -- but all are forms of what we call evil.

I've been here all along; thanks for the personal attacks. How about actually dealing with what I have said. I never troll. The only trolling I see here is coming from you, starting with your OP.

Who are YOU to determine when a discussion is out of hand? Again, it seems you have a definite problem with the opinions of others. I suggest you leave the internet at once -- it was designed for peope to actually DISCUSS things.

 

Heh Thane...

After going round and round with Fisher not too long ago we took it to tells...and still couldnt agree on the format of things.

He is....well "different"...and not meaning in a bad way. Just in the way of...not like the people I normally associate with in RL.

I will say this...I think he cares more about having his game taken then he tries to let on...and thus "attacks" people in his own way....while trying to appear passive.

Of all the vets I have listened to...not to mention their whining over the past 2.5 yrs...I gotta admit he remains my favorite and someone I actually like.

Even if we dont agree on the subject of SOE/SWG.

Anyways here is one for SWG vets,,,,right now there is a crooked government in WVa. Dont know if you saw the Heather Bresch(governors daughter) news things about bogus degrees etc. Their main University(WVU) is under control of people(Garrison and cronies) that act unaware that they are destroying the academic reputation...and are unwilling to step down. We wont even get into the Good Ole Boy Network that runs the state,

They could use help getting the word out to everyone about how corrupt things are.

It has been almost 3 yrs now...put your efforts into something that will affect things more profoundly than a game.

Fisher once told me I should make suggestions to help vets if I dont agree with em. So here it is....a chance to use your campaigning for something positive in this world.

As an FYI....I am a lifelong Michigan fan(over 30 yrs). Lets just say WVU and Michigan fans dont like each other much due to coach issues. But this transcends that...thus I am trying to spread awareness...maybe you could do the same.

A blog to read up on it....NSFW(harsh language sometimes...though intellectual talk mostly)

http://hippiekiller.wordpress.com/