Star Wars Galaxies

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Originally posted by Moaky07
Um Fisher...
 
I take it you havent played NWN2 then?
 
Obsidion made a pretty dog gone good game. Great storyline etc. The MoTB expansion was one of the best I have played.
KOTOR2 was going great also until it was pushed out the door. They made a huge improvement over the original KOTOR(more class options/tradeskills/etc).
You are pointing fingers at a company unfairly methinks.
The guy, that was in charge of licensing at LA, had a reputation of making contracters push things out the door on launch date...even if they werent ready.
I wish I had a link to the interview with him that says as much.
Basically he states "they signed to have it done by such and such time...we expect them to meet it.".
And from playing MMOs you should know...sometimes things just arent ready for whatever reason.
But as always...the total blame goes to SOE. Yet the all too familiar story detailing the workings of LA go unheeded.
Fish...I expect that out of most the folks on these forums...not you bro. Open your eyes.

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Once again to bring up GOOD GAMES that the company makes proves nothing -- everyone bad does something good. I am merely poking holes in people who try and use what happened to KOTOR 2 as any evidence to what happened with SWG.

MY point is that all speculative, oustide evidence, all pattern of nehavior evidence cancels itself out, as I have shown, and all we are left with are the actual evidence WE HAVE -- which clearly shows that SOE is to blame for the NGE, and LA never should have let SOE do it.

That places most blame on SOE, or at least it should and would in any business relationship.

The OP asked a fairly simple question.. I really don't understand why anyone took this into an arguement of blame.  In fact every post about it should be removed as off topic and the poster given a 3 to 7 day ban.  Sick of seeing this crap and its not useful in any... way..

God forbid any developer came here trying to see actual intellegent feedback.. no wonder all the games are screwed up.

They are ALL screwed up or you'd be playing an old game you used to...  UO.. DAoC whatever game.. by ANY developer you are probably not there anymore.. because of changes.

To the OP... simple answer for me...

Go back to Pre-CU... I hate class/level games.. end of story for me on that.

All they needed to do was fix, finish and polish.  Instead it was all about radical change every step of the way.

Its not even about "pre-cu" so much for me.. its about the fact I think that "skill based" design is superiour in every way for an MMO.. and the core issues of level/class based can be see in seen in every MMO that uses that design.

oh well.. anyway... have a nice day.

Well fairly recently quite a few of the old davs have come out of the woodwork to spew their turn of events in the hope of some kind of redemption I guess, you need to ask yourself how easy it would have been for all of them to simply point the finger straight at LA and lay he blame for the CU and NGE fiascos right at the steps of the Lucas ranch. It''d be the easy way out, and more to the point if there had been any truth behind that you can bet your life they'd have all been lining up to blame some mysterious suit at LA rather than take any blame themselves. The 3 or 4 that have been completely outspoken about the changes in SWg during their time on SOE's payroll have one thing in common, I don't think a single one of them has ever so much as mentioned LA, not even a fleeting mention if I remember rightly. SOE takes the full blame for SWG's numerous fuck ups for me, I've got enough hate for Lucas thanks to his desecration of the IP through his increasingly shitty movies

Originally posted by Fishermage

 

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Originally posted by Moaky07
Um Fisher...
 
I take it you havent played NWN2 then?
 
Obsidion made a pretty dog gone good game. Great storyline etc. The MoTB expansion was one of the best I have played.
KOTOR2 was going great also until it was pushed out the door. They made a huge improvement over the original KOTOR(more class options/tradeskills/etc).
You are pointing fingers at a company unfairly methinks.
The guy, that was in charge of licensing at LA, had a reputation of making contracters push things out the door on launch date...even if they werent ready.
I wish I had a link to the interview with him that says as much.
Basically he states "they signed to have it done by such and such time...we expect them to meet it.".
And from playing MMOs you should know...sometimes things just arent ready for whatever reason.
But as always...the total blame goes to SOE. Yet the all too familiar story detailing the workings of LA go unheeded.
Fish...I expect that out of most the folks on these forums...not you bro. Open your eyes.

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What I am saying is the things people are bringing up are NOT proving their points -- but the statements we have from all parties involved shows that the NGE was SOE's fault and that LEC should never have trusted SOE.

 

Once again to bring up GOOD GAMES that the company makes proves nothing -- everyone bad does something good. I am merely poking holes in people who try and use what happened to KOTOR 2 as any evidence to what happened with SWG.

MY point is that all speculative, oustide evidence, all pattern of nehavior evidence cancels itself out, as I have shown, and all we are left with are the actual evidence WE HAVE -- which clearly shows that SOE is to blame for the NGE, and LA never should have let SOE do it.

That places most blame on SOE, or at least it should and would in any business relationship.
 

How does it place the blame soley on SOE?   if LA has more control over their games then people say.   LA is capable of making a company push out poor quality products but has no ability to control anything else?   That makes no sense what so ever.

Open your eyes and realize that the blame has already occured for other products with the Star wars IP on it even if SWG was not even in the picture.     Bottom line facts are facts and there is not much to "argue' you just dont want to see it.  That's fine, but the fact of the matter is its true.    

Take it out of SOEs hands.

For me it wasn't really the fact that they brought in the NGE, after all, it's their game and their business - it was the way in which they dropped it on us that bothered me.  The way in which they behaved towards their paying subscribers is inexcusable and unethical.

You can't trust SOE with a subscription based payment plan and if you can't trust a company it is not wise to do business with them.  You can't trust SOE with any future goals they set for their games.  They are not trustworthy, in other words SOE is a bad company so don't give them any money.

Originally posted by Mackerni

I'm not going to be a hyprocrite. I played SWG and I loved it. I played WoW and I loved it. The first had innovation; the second had a solid foundation and content. If SWG wants to go the former way, they're going to have to produce the same kind of solid foundation and content that WoW made. And maybe a rogue-like class, since I'm addicted to stealth (spy, anyone?).

Quick edit: WoW has over 1000 quests. How many does SWG have, like 200?

They have a Rogue type class its called Spy.

Originally posted by Fishermage

 

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Originally posted by Battleskar

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Originally posted by Fishermage

 

 
 

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Originally posted by Battleskar

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Originally posted by Fishermage
 
Okay here we go. Once we were having just such an argument as to who was responsible for the NGE -- this being in response to Smed seemingly trying to shift blame as he does onto LEC, and people were having a rather vicious forum fight, with all the available evidence on the side that blamed mostly SOE for doing it, and LEC for allowing it to happen and for trusting SOE.
In response to this, Brenlo of SOE came forward and said the following:
"First a request, to those of you using this thread as your personal battleground, please take it to PM's.
So, I wanted to clarify that we did, here at SOE conceive and develop the NGE. We did so with the best of intentions, to try and make a better game. No blame or buck is being passed. =)
We can, and I am sure many of us will, debate for years on end whether this was a good idea. Personally, I believe the concept of the NGE was sound. Some smart guys had some good ideas to make the game better, Jeff being one of them, and they went for it. A bold move and honestly, I am happy to be a part of a company that is not afraid to try something different.
Where did we go wrong? Delivery, we failed in our timing and communication. That is where we let you down most, SWG faithful, and for that I truly apologize. "
 
Now note carefully he takes all blame for the NGE, and in fact, says he was PROUD of it and the company that did it, which is/was SOE. Okay, that's the first piece, a blanket admission and a denial that it was LEC's doing. He is taking FULL credit for it and assuming a mantle of pride here.
 

 

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I agree with you here,but in the end Lucas Arts allowed it to happen.They have full control over what SOE does to the game.Its still my opinion that alot of the changes came because of the constant Forum whining and complaining. Lucas Arts had the authority to stop the NGE and new very well how the vets would feel about it. It does not take a rocket scientist to know when you drop a bomb on sombody there would be massive retaliation,in this case your core vets and rightfully so.I guess I pretty much blame both of them.Oh well the game now is ok and will get me thru until Warhammer:P
 

 

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yes and if I hire a known expert builder, and they build me a bad house, sure, I allowed it to happen, but I am not to BLAME. I am only to blame for trusting the bad, unscrupulous builder. That is what I am saying but not what you are implying. Sure, LEC could NOT developed the game and shut it down, I guess -- because THAT is the position YOU are putting them in.
 
They certainly SHOULD have known better, and maybe it would have been better to shut the game down, hire another developer, and start over again, but they chose to trust SOE, and yes, that was a mistake.
They chose to accept the best efforts of the bad guys they hired and went with it.
 

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The thing that gets me the most is they allowed it to happen,but even after it was all said and done they still refused to make it right and open a classic server / servers to make it right for the vets,and to this day they still refuse to make this happen even tho there are still tons of postst about wanting classic servers so Lucas Arts still imo has just as much responsibility as SOE did. Even today they could say to SOE open a few Classic servers make it happen or we find another developer to continue the work,but no they still don't get it. By the way thx for posting this I never got to read it:P The Transcript stuff.
 

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We don't know anything of the sort. What we DO know is if they opened a classic server, and it succeeded, it would show FULLY that the NGE was as big a failure as it was, and it wasn't WoW, it wasn't miscommunication, it wasn't any of the false reasons SOE spreads now. It would clearly place blame on Smedley, and he would quite likely lose his job.

We do not know if Lucas Arts has the power in the agreement to force SOE to open a classic server. What we do know is THEY have nothing to lose, only money. We also know Smedlet stands to lose his job, and that SOE is all about protecting the Smedley. I feel that is far more likely the reason we don't see any classic servers.

Either way I still don't understand why you blame the person who allows a bad thing to happen the same as someone who DOES A BAD THING.

To me, that's an absurd way to assess blame. Again we ought to then blame God since He could have stopped the NGE but He didn't therefore he is equally to blame.

Let me ask this question then Mr.Fisher if you owned the Star Wars IP and SOE came to you and said hey lets do this and showed you the NGE what would have you done? Now after it was done so to speak you see what it did to your game ,now what? Would you use your Ownweship rights and set it right,or let them continue to mess with it. Since returning to the game I see it getting better,which leads me to believe Lucas Arts simply wants them to improve on what they currently have. I still thing they need to open a few classic servers with full support along with the new version of the game. I am sure this is all impossible now due to the money coming in.Some servers have good populations,while some still have bad populations. Oh well whats done is done really does not matter anymore who did what ,it was still the biggest mistake in mmo history.

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Originally posted by ummax

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Originally posted by Fisher