WAR (Warhammer Online)

Originally posted by Noggin

Originally posted by markyturnip

Originally posted by Noggin

 have a read through this thread;

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/197702

 

Noggin - I read the entire thread.

It was mainly people arguing the merits of open server rulesets.. and the chicken.

But I have sen no compelling argument explaining why the core RvR rulet, with restricted zones, is better for PvP. I am sure there are reasons, and I would like to hear why.

Is it simply so you can act like you are in a pve game when you want to? If so, I can understand core rulesets appealing to pve players.

But why would a pvp player choose it? (chicken access to tiers aside).

I really would like to know.

The only thought I came up with is that focusing all pvp in certan areas was judged to lead to better pvp. But the cost is random player driven pvp. Small hunting parties and so on.

I think I will go core, but I really worry I am effectively choosing the more pve server; when for me its all about the RvR.

My favourite times in WoW were hanging round gadget in tanaris and running around in small scale random pvp there. I fear RvR is all about the zerg.

Ok cool, it was quite possible you'd missed that thread.

 

My main argument, which I beleive I posted in that other thread is just the fact that Core is how the game was meant to be played.

 

Imagine a game of Baseball, but instead of running from 1st base through 2nd, 3rd and 4th they have an alternate set of rules that says you can run to any base after you've hit the ball.... Sure you'd have something like baseball played on the same field, but it's just not how it was meant to be played.

 

When you PvE in your zones you help your Realm's progression and when you fight in RvR zones you help your Realm. You get Renown for capturing the objectives and whatever. There is no reason nor reward for fighting behind enemy lines other than the self satisfaction of bothering someone which some players seem to hold in such high regard.

 

The way that the zones have been designed for PvE means that you really don't encounter the enemy when questing. So it's unlikely that anyone from the other side will be kill stealing or whatever, if they are and they're in your zone they will be flagged for RvR and you can just attack them anyway.

 

It just seems that developing another ruleset other than Core is something of a waste of time, Mythic made a game (compare it to a board game or tabletop game) with a rulebook and that's how it was designed to be played from the ground up, Open is just an afterthought.

Thats a cowards arguement.

In War the civilain population in the factories can get killed too from bombing sabotage rais etc.  no where is truly safe.  Now imagine if an armys self appointed crack troops could walk into safe areas anty time they chose - that would be advantageous but it wouldnt happen in a real world situation without special treaties etc.

PVP realms in mmogs develop codes of behaviour, opposing sides reach convenient arrangements but players lawasys have to keep on their toes and that t omy mind is the way it should be.   If there are parts of the game where becaue of a design oversight serious injustice can be done they should be addressed.

Originally posted by Thunderballs

Thats a cowards arguement.

In War the civilain population in the factories can get killed too from bombing sabotage rais etc.  no where is truly safe.  Now imagine if an armys self appointed crack troops could walk into safe areas anty time they chose - that would be advantageous but it wouldnt happen in a real world situation without special treaties etc.

PVP realms in mmogs develop codes of behaviour, opposing sides reach convenient arrangements but players lawasys have to keep on their toes and that t omy mind is the way it should be.   If there are parts of the game where becaue of a design oversight serious injustice can be done they should be addressed.

 

It's a game though, with rules... It's not a real war.

Obviously Open is far closer to the Lore of Warhammer. You see an enemy, you kill an enemy (or try to). Nothing about dancing up to a wandering enemy and saying 'Hur, hur..I can poke you and you have to just stand there and drool (obviously this is an Order player poking an Orc).

They (Mythic) put the Open ruleset in to be true to the Lore and to give something to the 'hardcore' (24x7) PvP players. Cool. That said, they also needed to give something to the normal (Okay, some of us aren't NORMAL, so say non-24x7 PvP types). We want to choose when and where we RvR/PvP. For myself, I was never a PvP'er at all. I detested it. Once I got into the swing of both the Scenarios and the 'open' PvP (open areas in the Core ruleset, not Open ruleset), I couldn't get enough. I'm still jones-ing today...C'MON 7th!. Erm..yes. Anyway, While I do love the PvP, I don't think I'm hardcore enough to just wander around when I want to level and end up in a fight, not of my choosing.

So long story even longer, the Core ruleset is there so that ALL players can feel they can play WAR, even if the 'end goal' is RvR/PvP oriented.

It's the chicken mechanic on the open RvR servers that I can't get my head around.

I'm not actually faulting people for playing on Open servers, I'm faulting Mythic because the system seems flawed.

I wouldn't mind if instead of the chicken as you go down a tier, you are always unflagged for RvR, this way you can't grief, but you can still go back to complete Tome stuff if you like, that would seem to work.

I'd probably play that, but as it stands at the moment from what we know, the chicken mechanic is in. 

Are Mythic so pleased with thier chicken idea that they just can't let go?

There are a few but IMO important differents between "Open RvR" and a "Core" Server.

Core-Server:

You are only flagged in RvR-Areas and if you enter your enemies territory. Means if you're playing Order and have some Quests in Norsca, you should count on it you will met destro-player who will attack you but you can't attack them first.

RvR won't happen just in RvR-Areas but in the whole Area just you're more protected. You're just doing PvE and some destro-player likes to kill you, he won't be able to do so but you can kill him instead or just let him be. Zonecontroll will be on a Core-Server a lot more important because of this.

And you won't become a chicken if you decide to go with level 12 back to Tier 1.

Open RvR:

You're always flagged, no matter what. Zonecontroll in lower Tiers will become completely unimportant or have just a very limited meaning to you or your realm. If you're level 40 you won't be able to see Tier 1-3 again, except for dying as a onehit-victim.

My conclusion...Core-Server sounds to me a lot more interesting.

Edit:

In Beta I went as Orderplayer to a Destro-ruled territory, yeah I met somebody who tried to kill me but I killed him instead. At that time I had no idea...how this system works, so I was rather surprised that I couldn't attack first. But if you know this system, you still can win and finish your quest.

Originally posted by Noggin

It's the chicken mechanic on the open RvR servers that I can't get my head around.

 

I'm not actually faulting people for playing on Open servers, I'm faulting Mythic because the system seems flawed.

 

I wouldn't mind if instead of the chicken as you go down a tier, you are always unflagged for RvR, this way you can't grief, but you can still go back to complete Tome stuff if you like, that would seem to work.

 

I'd probably play that, but as it stands at the moment from what we know, the chicken mechanic is in. 

 

Are Mythic so pleased with thier chicken idea that they just can't let go?

I think the chicken mechanism is there more for humor. The option you suggested about switching into a 'forced' unflagged mode would work but in general making someone a chicken is a poke (minor one) of humiliation. Having a high level stand there and not be touchable would be slightly frustrating to folks. And given the lack of skills/HP/damage dealing, lower level folks can pop off a higher level that does run in (and get chickened) and feel 'cool'.
 

I tend to agree with you on the Tome thing. I know it's a BIG deal with some folks but for me overall, if I miss something, *shrug* I'll get it on the next character and if I don't, life will still continue.

the reason to play core is because thats how the game was made and at its most fun.  open was thrown in to give the trolls a dark dank pit to go die in let the trolls have their open.  core doesnt lack pvp and actually buffs 1s to 8s in rvr, in open 11s in rvr armor will go to where the level 1 and 2s come into the world and start pqing and ganktard them out of existence because they arent covered by the orange net of choice.  you can still go to the enemies spawn areas on core and turn your flag on and tempt them and slay their pq mobs and pick a fight if you wanna, but they get to choose if they get repeatedly anally plundered or not.  core is where the best experience for all fun loving gamers will be, open will be a troll filled pit =D

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Originally posted by Thunderballs

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Originally posted by Noggin

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Originally posted by markyturnip

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Originally posted by Noggin

 have a read through this thread;
 
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/197702

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Noggin - I read the entire thread.
It was mainly people arguing the merits of open server rulesets.. and the chicken.
But I have sen no compelling argument explaining why the core RvR rulet, with restricted zones, is better for PvP. I am sure there are reasons, and I would like to hear why.
Is it simply so you can act like you are in a pve game when you want to? If so, I can understand core rulesets appealing to pve players.
But why would a pvp player choose it? (chicken access to tiers aside).
I really would like to know.
The only thought I came up with is that focusing all pvp in certan areas was judged to lead to better pvp. But the cost is random player driven pvp. Small hunting parties and so on.
I think I will go core, but I really worry I am effectively choosing the more pve server; when for me its all about the RvR.
My favourite times in WoW were hanging round gadget in tanaris and running around in small scale random pvp there. I fear RvR is all about the zerg.

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Ok cool, it was quite possible you'd missed that thread.
 
My main argument, which I beleive I posted in that other thread is just the fact that Core is how the game was meant to be played.
 
Imagine a game of Baseball, but instead of running from 1st base through 2nd, 3rd and 4th they have an alternate set of rules that says you can run to any base after you've hit the ball.... Sure you'd have something like baseball played on the same field, but it's just not how it was meant to be played.
 
When you PvE in your zones you help your Realm's progression and when you fight in RvR zones you help your Realm. You get Renown for capturing the objectives and whatever. There is no reason nor reward for fighting behind enemy lines other than the self satisfaction of bothering someone which some players seem to hold in such high regard.
 
The way that the zones have been designed for PvE means that you really don't encounter the enemy when questing. So it's unlikely that anyone from the other side will be kill stealing or whatever, if they are and they're in your zone they will be flagged for RvR and you can just attack them anyway.
 
It just seems that developing another ruleset other than Core is something of a waste of time, Mythic made a game (compare it to a board game or tabletop game) with a rulebook and that's how it was designed to be played from the ground up, Open is just an afterthought.

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Thats a cowards arguement.
In War the civilain population in the factories can get killed too from bombing sabotage rais etc.  no where is truly safe.  Now imagine if an armys self appointed crack troops could walk into safe areas anty time they chose - that would be advantageous but it wouldnt happen in a real world situation without special treaties etc.
PVP realms in mmogs develop codes of behaviour, opposing sides reach convenient arrangements but players lawasys have to keep on their toes and that t omy mind is the way it should be.   If there are parts of the game where becaue of a design oversight serious injustice can be done they should be addressed.
 

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Ok, but in real life, there is no respawn. In games, you either get a certain number of lives, possibly a penalty, or maybe no penalty at all. Please don't compare real life war to a game and expect any amount of logic to be obtained from your statements. There are no real codes developed on PvP servers because life isn't frail. You will always have gank squads with no real penalties until you have a permadeath game.

(I don't believe WAR should be a permadeath game, I only mention it as a possibility for some type of unspoken code to show up in a MMO.)