General Discussion

Originally posted by rikilii

Oh, but that's not good enough, because while you're in your own personal little dungeon, other players can't gank your face.  Can't you see that by not being available for other players to gank your face, you are ruining their essential MMO experience?

That wouldn't be the problem.  It's when I hop out of my instanced dungeon, and you hop out of yours at the same time, and we all arrive at the same spot together that immersion is ruined.  Then if your party decides to kill my party it gets even worse.

And it wouldn't be your fault.  The blame would lie squarely on the shoulders of the developers.

I personally like waiting in line while 50 subscribers are jumping on 5 npc's for a quest;  makes the immersion so real.  

Originally posted by kujii

I personally like waiting in line while 50 subscribers are jumping on 5 npc's for a quest;  makes the immersion so real.  

Now, see, that would be your fault for trying to turn a persistent world into a linear, gear-grinding quest instance.

I also love how the poor implementation of previous persistent worlds is the target of arguments for those in favor of instances, rather than the idea of a persistent world itself.

Originally posted by Josher

Originally posted by draass

i hope that everyone who posted in here REALISES that whether something is good or bad is totally subjective? i think the op shd modify his question by adding something like "why DO YOU THINK its good or bad?"

Giving your opinion on something is totally fine.. but dont impose your own views or "truths" on everyone else..

 

Except when taken in context.  Instances are indeed a very GOOD thing if you expect lots of people to play your game.   You can't say instances are a bad thing in WOW, just because you "think" so.  Its factually a very good thing, because you HAVE TO have instances.  Without them, there would be lines, lag, problems, lots and lots of complaining.  the dungeons can't "work" unless a specific number of people are in them.  They're balanced, tuned and designed specifically for X number of players.  So by instancing the dungeons, Blizzard did a very good thing.  If they were persistent, they wouldn't work, so instances in WOW are in FACT good.  Thinking they're bad means nothing.

Same with BGs.  AV couldn't function unless it was an instance.  You couldn't have 500+ people all congregating in one area and expect a playable game.   CTF only works with even teams.   

Instancing every zone like in Conan can be considered bad, because loads of people have complained about it and the playerbase has dropped due to that very feature.  Instancing dungeons is ONLY bad for a very small % of players, which really means didly.

 

thats exactly the problem isnt it? in WHOS context? mine? yours? the companies? They all differ.. and when anyone tries to approach the issue in any context and assume them to the same for all he/she will be making a big mistake..
 

ill show you the difference between a fact and an opinion .. Blizzard has the most market share in the MMO (in terms of subs ) atm .. thats a fact... U THINK that instances are a good thing .. THATS YOUR opinion.. what u think doesnt make it a fact.. if it was a fact then EVERY SINGLE individual would naturally go for the "good" things isnt it? but is that the case? clearly not.. the FACT that many different MMOS exist REFLECT the FACT that many people have many different likes and dislikes and with that comes what they THINK is good or bad.. Why would anyone be playing be paying for something he thinks is bad? and why isnt EVERYONE playing WOW and its "wonderful" instances if its "good"?

Instances give everyone a chance. Simple as that. They can prevent high level players from completely dominating areas and items. They speed up the questing process and individualize the experience for smaller groups of players. Persistant worlds tend to have item farmers and hoards of gankers covering the most sought after mobs/areas who, by sheer might or level, prevent or severely hamper the progress of other lower players and drive markets to insane prices where the farmers are the only beneficiary. Add all the other benefits mentioned already in previous posts and I'll take an instanced dungeon in an otherwise persistant world any time.

What I don't understand is why a simple question always turns into such intense arguements over different games and people start shouting about "Facts" and "Opinions"? WOW is WOW and AOC is AOC. Good, bad or ugly they offer all they contain and either you play them or don't. Like them or hate them. It's your choice. It's all been said and done so many times in these and every other gaming forum that the arguements are mundane and meaningless and no amount of bickering and fanboi-ism/trolling is going to amount to squat when it's all about "Opinions" at it's very heart. If a game is terminally borked for you and you can't stand it because of instances or the lack of them then leave it alone. The developers and every other up and coming game manufacturer out there will see what works and what doesn't by the simple numbers of those who stick around and play the games. Coming into any forum and shouting down at each other from the lofty perches where you keep your own opinions makes you sound like you're only angry because you wanted to love the game and feel somehow betrayed that it didn't live up to your expectations and you're taking it out on anyone who's opinion differs from your own.

So what. Who cares. Move on. You're right. You win. Instances suck. Instances ROCK! Whatever. I play what I like and don't play what I don't like... same as you and everyone else and that IS a FACT!

Originally posted by Kartuhn

Instances give everyone a chance. Simple as that. They can prevent high level players from completely dominating areas and items. They speed up the questing process and individualize the experience for smaller groups of players. Persistant worlds tend to have item farmers and hoards of gankers covering the most sought after mobs/areas who, by sheer might or level, prevent or severely hamper the progress of other lower players and drive markets to insane prices where the farmers are the only beneficiary. Add all the other benefits mentioned already in previous posts and I'll take an instanced dungeon in an otherwise persistant world any time.

What I don't understand is why a simple question always turns into such intense arguements over different games and people start shouting about "Facts" and "Opinions"? WOW is WOW and AOC is AOC. Good, bad or ugly they offer all they contain and either you play them or don't. Like them or hate them. It's your choice. It's all been said and done so many times in these and every other gaming forum that the arguements are mundane and meaningless and no amount of bickering and fanboi-ism/trolling is going to amount to squat when it's all about "Opinions" at it's very heart. If a game is terminally borked for you and you can't stand it because of instances or the lack of them then leave it alone. The developers and every other up and coming game manufacturer out there will see what works and what doesn't by the simple numbers of those who stick around and play the games. Coming into any forum and shouting down at each other from the lofty perches where you keep your own opinions makes you sound like you're only angry because you wanted to love the game and feel somehow betrayed that it didn't live up to your expectations and you're taking it out on anyone who's opinion differs from your own.

So what. Who cares. Move on. You're right. You win. Instances suck. Instances ROCK! Whatever. I play what I like and don't play what I don't like... same as you and everyone else and that IS a FACT!

Your sentiment to play what you like holds truth in it, but how many quality non instanced MMOGs can you name? Completely instance free in all aspects.
 

That is the problem and why those of us who desire a quality non instanced game feel the need to be heard at the top of our lungs.

Originally posted by heremypet

Well they still havent gotten it right yet.. but technology will allow for that fantastic game someday.

Imagine a powerfull epic dragon.. that is hard enough just getting to the front door of his lair. Yea, thats right, I mean you cant group teleport to his doorstep ok? Instead your group marches out from one of your factions outposts, all the while they are vulnerable to other players, and whatever dangers might be on the way.

Well, that already exists. Lineage 2 has this exact scenario.

As far as your other statment about no one being able to argue that instancing is "epic fail" in pvp games, that is a bit myopic don't you think?

PvP can be implemented in any number of ways. In some cases, instancing would not have anything to do with it. In a more open FFA game more so, but if one wanted a story, it is possible to have some instancing if brief.

The problem I see here is that there are so many other arguments going on that instancing touches all of them and therefore is the catalyst for everyone arguing about the same but different things.

So, for example, people have different ideas of what makes a great pvp game. While some might want something more like DAOC another might want something more like Lineage 2 or UO. Or guild wars or fury for that matter.

So now we have the problem that instancing would affect all these games differently.

Instancing is a tool and if used properly and in the right setting can be a powerful tool. If used in the wrong setting it could undermine the inherent properties of a game.

So sure, in an all out ffa game, instancing would have to be minimal because you might not want your enemies having the ability to become more powerful without you having a chance to stop them.

But in other games that have pvp but the pvp is implemented differently and with different rewards, it might not really matter.

Originally posted by Samuraisword

Originally posted by Kartuhn

Instances give everyone a chance. Simple as that. They can prevent high level players from completely dominating areas and items. They speed up the questing process and individualize the experience for smaller groups of players. Persistant worlds tend to have item farmers and hoards of gankers covering the most sought after mobs/areas who, by sheer might or level, prevent or severely hamper the progress of other lower players and drive markets to insane prices where the farmers are the only beneficiary. Add all the other benefits mentioned already in previous posts and I'll take an instanced dungeon in an otherwise persistant world any time.

What I don't understand is why a simple question always turns into such intense arguements over different games and people start shouting about "Facts" and "Opinions"? WOW is WOW and AOC is AOC. Good, bad or ugly they offer all they contain and either you play them or don't. Like them or hate them. It's your choice. It's all been said and done so many times in these and every other gaming forum that the arguements are mundane and meaningless and no amount of bickering and fanboi-ism/trolling is going to amount to squat when it's all about "Opinions" at it's very heart. If a game is terminally borked for you and you can't stand it because of instances or the lack of them then leave it alone. The developers and every other up and coming game manufacturer out there will see what works and what doesn't by the simple numbers of those who stick around and play the games. Coming into any forum and shouting down at each other from the lofty perches where you keep your own opinions makes you sound like you're only angry because you wanted to love the game and feel somehow betrayed that it didn't live up to your expectations and you're taking it out on anyone who's opinion differs from your own.

So what. Who cares. Move on. You're right. You win. Instances suck. Instances ROCK! Whatever. I play what I like and don't play what I don't like... same as you and everyone else and that IS a FACT!

Your sentiment to play what you like holds truth in it, but how many quality non instanced MMOGs can you name? Completely instance free in all aspects.
 

That is the problem and why those of us who desire a quality non instanced game feel the need to be heard at the top of our lungs.

Eve.  Thataway.  Have at it.

Also, there are only a handful of games that force you into instances (AoC, for instance).  Most do not.  Yes, you  can't experience all the content without going there.  So?  You can't experience all the content in most games.

If the vast majority of games have adopted one model, maybe there's a reason for it?