General Discussion

This is a general observation over the current course the MMO industry is on.  I won't refer to any games in particular to hopefully avoid flames...

Everything the player will do is planned out from the beginning.  What armor they will have, what abilities they acquire, even what sort of adventuring they do.  Through quests and instances, levels and gear,  people have fewer actual choices in "how" to play a game than ever before.

Is this really what the gaming audience wants?  Do we simply want to queue up to a ride(battleground), see if we meet the height(level) requirement and then enjoy the carefully choreographed experience?

What happened to our sense of adventure?  Do we really want to just be a character in an already existing novel, or would we rather write our own story?

I remember back when I first started MMOs and part of the reward for playing was having to figure out something for yourself, and reap the rewards or consequences. 

My deepest hope for the MMO industry is that developers begin to be less of businessmen, and more of adventurers.  Think less about how to keep players paying a subscription, and more about how to keep players adventuring. 

While I realize that my generation is passing on the gaming torch to a younger crowd, I just hope that some of the principles that started the MMO genre will continue through in the future.

Originally posted by Uzik

This is a general observation over the current course the MMO industry is on.  I won't refer to any games in particular to hopefully avoid flames...

 

Everything the player will do is planned out from the beginning.  What armor they will have, what abilities they acquire, even what sort of adventuring they do.  Through quests and instances, levels and gear,  people have fewer actual choices in "how" to play a game than ever before.

Is this really what the gaming audience wants?  Do we simply want to queue up to a ride(battleground), see if we meet the height(level) requirement and then enjoy the carefully choreographed experience?

What happened to our sense of adventure?  Do we really want to just be a character in an already existing novel, or would we rather write our own story?

I remember back when I first started MMOs and part of the reward for playing was having to figure out something for yourself, and reap the rewards or consequences. 

My deepest hope for the MMO industry is that developers begin to be less of businessmen, and more of adventurers.  Think less about how to keep players paying a subscription, and more about how to keep players adventuring. 

While I realize that my generation is passing on the gaming torch to a younger crowd, I just hope that some of the principles that started the MMO genre will continue through in the future.

You are not alone in this observation Uzik but unfortunately people learn to accept what they are given and over time they adjust and end up liking it. If you spoon feed people crap then they will expect it and end up asking for more.

It seems to me that the games that sell the most are the games that require you to think less. Most people just dont have the patience or imagination to be creative themselves and prefer to just be given a menu of options to pick from instead. That is why nearly all the poplular mmos now have levels, classes & quests and they all guide you along with a story. Largely I think this is because it is how single player games have always been and so developers just dont know yet how to really take advantage of the online aspect of mmos.........so as a result we just get single player game design being incorporated into our online games. I would say it is partly lack of experience in the relevant game design skills, partly plain old lack of imagination and partly because the games companies want to make it simple and easy for the brain dead masses to understand which of course = more subscribers and more money.

For many people this is all they think online gaming is about so they just dont see the potential of what could be done with mmos. I have lost count of the number of incredibly narrow minded posts by people who insist things like PvP cant work in games! Its insane really considering the whole point of playing a mmorpg is that you inhabit a virtual game world with other people. Why would you not want to interact with people in a realistic manner and actually do things to effect the game world? Its all based on the fact that PvP has been unsuccessfully implemented into single player style themepark games such as WoW and EQ2......and of course thats all many people know isnt it. In fact whenever the term PvP gets mentioned the brain dead masses start thinking of high level characters beating up low level characters......again proof that players have been brainwashed by daft level-based games.

Hopefully though more games will start breaking away from the tiresome outdated way that mmos have been following and will stop playing like single player games. When a successful, interesting & realistic mmo gets realeased all the braindead zombies will be herded onto it like a flock of sheep......and the really dumb ones will get filtered out as their themepark brains will find it too difficult to adapt and they will have to drift back to what they are already familiar with. Then we will have two types of games - themepark mmos and real mmos.

Originally posted by Uzik

This is a general observation over the current course the MMO industry is on.  I won't refer to any games in particular to hopefully avoid flames...

 

Everything the player will do is planned out from the beginning.  What armor they will have, what abilities they acquire, even what sort of adventuring they do.  Through quests and instances, levels and gear,  people have fewer actual choices in "how" to play a game than ever before.

Is this really what the gaming audience wants?  Do we simply want to queue up to a ride(battleground), see if we meet the height(level) requirement and then enjoy the carefully choreographed experience?

What happened to our sense of adventure?  Do we really want to just be a character in an already existing novel, or would we rather write our own story?

I remember back when I first started MMOs and part of the reward for playing was having to figure out something for yourself, and reap the rewards or consequences. 

My deepest hope for the MMO industry is that developers begin to be less of businessmen, and more of adventurers.  Think less about how to keep players paying a subscription, and more about how to keep players adventuring. 

While I realize that my generation is passing on the gaming torch to a younger crowd, I just hope that some of the principles that started the MMO genre will continue through in the future.

Well, yes it is what players want in a GAME.

If we take out all of the elements you seen to think are bad, you've destroyed the "game" part of Massive Multi Player Online Role Playing Game.

Are there people that want a virtual world, and don't want any "game"?

Well, yes. Some of them are playing Second Life.

Second Life doesn't really appeal to me, because there is no "game".

Here, you can do whatever you want, scuba dive, dance, campaign for Obama, etc. But there's no "game"  really.

Plus, what do you think people are going to do, if they can do ANYTHING, and there are no real boundaries to follow? Most will end up doing some sort of cyber sex, or playing as furries, etc, which is what you find in Second Life.

Its not that MMOs havnt changed enough. The MMO player has changed dramatically. Fact is, everything was new when EQ1 and the like came out. Just wandering around the world was a new experience that had never been done before. NOw, everything is "Been there, done that".

When a hobby goes mainstream a lot of things change. But it's not all bad. Interfaces are becoming more informative as opposed to overly complex. Ideas (and entire games) are being put forward and being tossed as not workable or successful. The game business is doing what many other businesses (Film, Television etc) have done over the years - they are going for the buck. 90% of any business is going to churn out mediocre or worse stuff.

I still haven't seen a game that incorporates my personal tastes into a game, but if I did I don't know that it would do that well. It would probably not be popular. When the hobby is being taken up by a lot of people who weren't here before, but spend money just like anyone else.... guess what happens.

I support games that are closer to what I want, and avoid the ones that aren't. Unless you can develop your own game or convince a lot of people to think just as you do and vote with their dollars, the marketplace will lead games in another direction.

I think innovation will come when people find a way to fit it into the present marketplace, or when someone designs something so different or brilliant that the marketplace its self will shift.

Nothing bad lasts forever, but neither does anything good.

Originally posted by Baz_Anderson

When a hobby goes mainstream a lot of things change.

Very true.  You could probably come up with MANY other examples of this.  When some thing becomes "mainstream" it gains money and support, but it also becomes more "accessible".

This has been my complaint with newer MMO's.  They're designed for more of a directed experience now, rather than for exploration or adventure.  Sure, some times it's just the little, subtle changes that make the difference, but they add up.  Mob spawns, area design, "content", instances, all seem like minor changes (and they might be) but put them together and you push MMO's in a different direction.

Originally posted by gillvane1

Well, yes it is what players want in a GAME.

If we take out all of the elements you seen to think are bad, you've destroyed the "game" part of Massive Multi Player Online Role Playing Game.

Are there people that want a virtual world, and don't want any "game"?

Well, yes. Some of them are playing Second Life.

Second Life doesn't really appeal to me, because there is no "game".

Here, you can do whatever you want, scuba dive, dance, campaign for Obama, etc. But there's no "game"  really.

Plus, what do you think people are going to do, if they can do ANYTHING, and there are no real boundaries to follow? Most will end up doing some sort of cyber sex, or playing as furries, etc, which is what you find in Second Life.

 

First off, why does a game have to be restrictive?  Sure games have rules, but when was the last time that you watched a baseball game that was choreographed before it started?

The potential for the unexpected is part of the thrill and adventure of a game.  That is the real root of roleplaying games after all. 

Developers CAN give you freedom and direction, but instead they have been choosing a very narrow, linear path since the market has expanded so rapidly in the past few years. 

Even when you look at "quests" in current games, there is nothing questlike about them.  They are more along the lines of tasks or chores that the developers give you.  There should be more adventure and thinking involved.  Not just another timesink on the road to the level cap.

I think it depends what you are looking for.

If you want your fun handed to you on a plate with minimal fuss then they are fine.

If you want a more player driven interactive experience where you have to think then they are bad.

I'm not sure the new crop of theme park mmo's deserve the title mmorpg really as they just you give a pre-defined character with next to no scope for the player to evolve it as they see fit. Actual roleplaying is nearly non existent, you just follow the devs predefined path. There is not much more roleplaying involved than counterstrike.

Maybe they should just describe themselves as a fantasy style mmog.