WAR (Warhammer Online)

Originally posted by ProfRed

Well I would say there are three lines.  Scenarios, RvR, and PvE makes 3 lines.  Then there are 3 tiers to do these three lines in that you can switch between at any time.  3 x 3 = 9 so I would say at any time there are 9 linear paths that you can jump between which makes the game not so linear.  Most games = 1 linear path, maybe 2.  WAR = 9.  It is actually one of the less linear MMORPGS to come out as far as non sandbox MMO's go.

YOu fail to undertand the concept. Ofc a game with 1 path is more linear than a game with 2 paths but thats like adding another class and claiming its a path of its own. A game having more paths do not add trough it being more sandbox, it just got more content. A sandbox game rather  have possibilitys to creat paths rather than allredy designed which meen war can in no way be called sandbox in any regard no matter if its about rvr or pve or sc. Someone said this game got sandbox pvp, thats not true. With sandbox pvp the pvp got to be created by the players wether its ganking or massive battles aginst a diffrent  PLAYER communit and not faction. SC got allredy set goals with points and reward, can it get more lineare? IN a sandbox game you can bake in a quest into the pvp but the focus has to lay on players having the freedom to make thier own fights. Zone pvp is linare. The more rules a game has to restric pvp/pve makes it more linare but games got to have rules to make them work, like non pvp zones to respawn ect ect. Lineage2 got pvp that leans towards sanbox, the players picks the time, place and rewards for pvp. You can kill anyone you want anywhere except the peace zones which is nessesery for the game to be functional.Wether they fight for a rb or drama, its the players that makes the content., NCsoft only set up the frames.

The linear aspects only apply to PVE. They are virtually non-existent in RvR. 

I must have done at least 100 scenarios during the OB and not one was ever the same. Different team make-ups, different levels of skill, different tactics - the list goes on.

RvR in WAR is one of the most dynamic and diverse aspects I've ever seen in an MMO - I'm truly loving it.

Originally posted by Sweeet

The linear aspects only apply to PVE. They are virtually non-existent in RvR. 

I must have done at least 100 scenarios during the OB and not one was ever the same. Different team make-ups, different levels of skill, different tactics - the list goes on.

RvR in WAR is one of the most dynamic and diverse aspects I've ever seen in an MMO - I'm truly loving it.

 

Your wrong. This has more to do about combat than the aspects of global pvp in the game. Its only in a game with true open world pvp where the freedom is given to the players to fight for any objective or anyone we got a sandbox pvp game. This game got allredy set objectivs, the variables is much less and the reward is allredy at a vendor to be bought. In a open pvp world the reward could be whatever of many objectives you choose to fight for, objectives made by your allies to reach your own set goal. Here the goal is  to advance in rvr rank which will award you new items. The only variable here is sucess or failiur, skill or no skill and rank of items. The open world pvp is  restricted to certin zones here which adds towards the carebear layout that has been flurishing latly. Sc will soon be as grindish as wow BG, there is not much diffrent in the objectives of these two, only thing diffrent is classes and layout of combat in this game.

I like it. Sure it detracts from the world like feel but it makes it so meeting people for combat and PvE is a lot easier. Very simple and enjoyable.

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Originally posted by Hawkaron

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Originally posted by Meridion

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Originally posted by Hawkaron

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Originally posted by Dedthom

What needs to be avoided is stereo typing people into " real MMOers want an sand box while linear play is for casual carebears".
Of course when this happens on this forum it will bring the internet down and we will all be moving into caves cause civilization will collapse.

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Well, people who grew up with old-school MMORPGs will of course like sandbox a lot more while neo-MMORPG players except them to be linear. It's all decided by what we grew up with, and I grew up with the DAoC, SWG type of MMORPG.

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Untrue, there are people who can cherish both, ride-like and sandbox. I can enjoy myself playing a totally linear shooter in multiplayer for months and months. Where you do nothing but respawn, kill, get killed... then again, I enjoy EvE, the tactics, the teamwork, the complexity...
It all depends on what you expect and demand. if you limit yourself to "i only play xy style" it's not the game's fault you don't have fun...
meridion
 
EDIT: Plus, I don't think linearity is the right term here. FEAR is linear, Half-Life is linear, but even the most narrowed-down games, like Guild Wars, offer a whole lot of different things to do. So the level of "guided gameplay" is pretty low compared to regular multiplayer-capable games.

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It's natural to be used to how you originally played a genre. You played and liked it for what it was, and then here comes the new refined MMORPG game that sets a standard for the next generation, but you feel that it somehow differentiates from the MMORPGs you used to play. Sadly, you don't seem to enjoy it, so you demand MMORPGs to be like how they were when you actually liked the genre.
That's how it is like in my case. I feel that something has changed, and unfortunately I don't like it.

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8. to improve by inserting finer distinctions, superior elements, etc.: to refine on one's previous work.
.
Very little of that is being done in this genre.

Hardly any recent games have refined in a factorable way, and every game released since ~2003 or so has been nothing but a concoction of features envisioned in many other games meshed into a new game, with pretty or cute graphics layered on top of it.

WAR's Public Quest system are nothing more than Raids adapted for a PvP crowd. It is no different than having randoms come to a Lineage II castle seige and be allowed the right to participate. Attaching a Quest to it is not refinement, it is incentive because otherwise people wouldn't bother to do it seeing as how there would be no point...

WoW's quest system was not refinement in that quests existed in many other games. The only difference that WoW implemented, was that it really dumbed down the questing experience in MMOs. Remember quests in EQ that had scripts and the NPCs needed you to talk to them about a certain subject during the quest? When it was almost like having a conversation and you pretty much had to read it because the clue phrases were [surrounded by brackets] and you couldn't just click through them like these new games? Yea...

On top of their overly simplistic questing system, they put way too many in the game, and made the rewards so good that they became a way for gamers to Powerlevel and Twink themselves that people do nothing BUT click through them in a hurry as they are trying to maximize their XP/Items recieved per hour...

WoW and other games have refined nothing. They have done nothing but created a culture of gamers that are all about advancing as fast as possible. They have created a whole market of solo gamers that are exactly what this genre ISN'T for, but because they are able to make easy games that cater to those players and disguise them as MMORPGs, they keep churning them out.

That is why the MMORPG genre is full of crappy games, because there is too little refinement actually going on and too much copy/paste and reuse of old code (love the pet bugs that were in WAR, that were carbon copies from DAoC, but maybe that was just a coincidence).

AoC tried to refine melee combat, but failed. Vanguard did refine spell casting. DAoC created RvR and Lineage II refined Mass PvP. But seriously, with the way that game developers are actually thinking these days... There really isn't much refinement to be done because they are not innovating anything at all. WAR has no innovation in it, and neither did WoW.

Originally posted by UbahNecro

 

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Originally posted by Hawkaron

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Originally posted by Meridion

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Originally posted by Hawkaron

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Originally posted by Dedthom

 

What needs to be avoided is stereo typing people into " real MMOers want an sand box while linear play is for casual carebears".
Of course when this happens on this forum it will bring the internet down and we will all be moving into caves cause civilization will collapse.

---

 
Well, people who grew up with old-school MMORPGs will of course like sandbox a lot more while neo-MMORPG players except them to be linear. It's all decided by what we grew up with, and I grew up with the DAoC, SWG type of MMORPG.

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Untrue, there are people who can cherish both, ride-like and sandbox. I can enjoy myself playing a totally linear shooter in multiplayer for months and months. Where you do nothing but respawn, kill, get killed... then again, I enjoy EvE, the tactics, the teamwork, the complexity...
It all depends on what you expect and demand. if you limit yourself to "i only play xy style" it's not the game's fault you don't have fun...
meridion
 
EDIT: Plus, I don't think linearity is the right term here. FEAR is linear, Half-Life is linear, but even the most narrowed-down games, like Guild Wars, offer a whole lot of different things to do. So the level of "guided gameplay" is pretty low compared to regular multiplayer-capable games.

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It's natural to be used to how you originally played a genre. You played and liked it for what it was, and then here comes the new refined MMORPG game that sets a standard for the next generation, but you feel that it somehow differentiates from the MMORPGs you used to play. Sadly, you don't seem to enjoy it, so you demand MMORPGs to be like how they were when you actually liked the genre.
That's how it is like in my case. I feel that something has changed, and unfortunately I don't like it.

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Call them different, not refined...
.

 

8. to improve by inserting finer distinctions, superior elements, etc.: to refine on one's previous work.
.
Very little of that is being done in this genre.

Hardly any recent games have refined in a factorable way, and every game released since ~2003 or so has been nothing but a concoction of features envisioned in many other games meshed into a new game, with pretty or cute graphics layered on top of it.

WAR's Public Quest system are nothing more than Raids adapted for a PvP crowd. It is no different than having randoms come to a Lineage II castle seige and be allowed the right to participate. Attaching a Quest to it is not refinement, it is incentive because otherwise people wouldn't bother to do it seeing as how there would be no point...

WoW's quest system was not refinement in that quests existed in many other games. The only difference that WoW implemented, was that it really dumbed down the questing experience in MMOs. Remember quests in EQ that had scripts and the NPCs needed you to talk to them about a certain subject during the quest? When it was almost like having a conversation and you pretty much had to read it because the clue phrases were [surrounded by brackets] and you couldn't just click through them like these new games? Yea...

On top of their overly simplistic questing system, they put way too many in the game, and made the rewards so good that they became a way for gamers to Powerlevel and Twink themselves that people do nothing BUT click through them in a hurry as they are trying to maximize their XP/Items recieved per hour...

WoW and other games have refined nothing. They have done nothing but created a culture of gamers that are all about advancing as fast as possible. They have created a whole market of solo gamers that are exactly what this genre ISN'T for, but because they are able to make easy games that cater to those players and disguise them as MMORPGs, they keep churning them out.

That is why the MMORPG genre is full of crappy games, because there is too little refinement actually going on and too much copy/paste and reuse of old code (love the pet bugs that were in WAR, that were carbon copies from DAoC, but maybe that was just a coincidence).

AoC tried to refine melee combat, but failed. Vanguard did refine spell casting. DAoC created RvR and Lineage II refined Mass PvP. But seriously, with the way that game developers are actually thinking these days... There really isn't much refinement to be done because they are not innovating anything at all. WAR has no innovation in it, and neither did WoW.

Damn... yeah, I completely agree with you.

But as long as people buy the games, they will keep pumping out the same stuff over and over again. People must like it, look at WoW. Why could it be so successful? MMORPGs weren't for a wide audience, but WoW managed to gather a total of 11 million subscribers (While half of it consists of chinese farmers, but yeah, still 5mil subs if you don't count them.). Can you actually believe that WoW has over the half of total MMORPG subscribers? I don't understand what people find so shining about that game, and probably never will do.

The classic Elite from 1982, and Grand Theft Auto are probably the most nonlinear games.

They are single player games though.

Mix them up, make it multiplayer, bingo, the best mmorpg ever?

Star Trek online or Stargate worlds could be it