Age of Conan

The thing with making the PVP minigames give more XP is that then Funcom is doing exactly what they said the game would be about.  But hey - they said alot of things didn't they ?

The main point is that FFA world PVP is and will always be exploited.  Still Funcom had to keep it like that even tho most of the feedback said it would not work.  It is not working - it can never work.  Not while that exact system is giving out XP for top items. 

Yes...  This was talked about on test forums.  But like with everything else... Funcom did not listen.  And tbh they simply could not delay this patch any longer.  They know this will be exploited to death. 

The fact of the matter is that Funcom talks about great systems of this and that.  Then when they try to implement the system the truth comes out.  It was a bad idea in the first place that wasn't thought out at all.  Its exactly the same as the siege system that they were told from day one would NOT work in MMO cause the gaming comunity is driven by totally diffrent goals than what Funcom thought.

But again - Funcom did not listen to the current testers. They did not listen to the closed beta testers.  Or at least the kept listening to the wrong ppl that did not in any way see the big picture. 

how can you prevent that?

The way it reads is that a ALT is created to get Pwned and help others lvl right? 

I don't play PvP, but out of interest, cant the exact same thing be done on all other MMOs? How do others prevent it?

same thing happens in WoW for honor killings.

its silly really. cheats ruin it for everyone.

Originally posted by SgtFrog

same thing happens in WoW for honor killings.

its silly really. cheats ruin it for everyone.

Exactly. This is nothing new to MMO's, the OP is reaching for something to bitch about. Also, the rest of the PvP patch/system isn't in yet.

This is a response to Arkady09.  I see your point and potential frustration with the discussion because it does seem like this is something that could have been resolved while the patch was in testing but I would counsel you to go easy on Funcom on this issue and here is why I think so:

This isn't really a Funcom thing to me so much as it is indicative of a problem I see in the gaming industry as a whole.  This whole issue is more of a planning/design problem than it is a functionality problem.  If you think about it the system works and it works really well.  Unfortunately I see too many game developers that don't take into account two immutable facts about gamers 1.  They like to explore and test the limits/boundaries 2.  They're creative as hell.  It's no suprise to me to see someone doing this because it shows that the players are testing the limitations of the system. 

This problem is going to continue in the gaming industry so long as the developers continue to keep gamers out of the design phases of their games.  Funcom designed a system that is technically accurate with what they were trying to accomplish.  A.  We want pvp to mean something (xp, gear, etc.) and the system does that.  B.  We want the system to be technically sound and work as described.  So far it does and there don't seem to be a ton of bugs.  C.  We want the system to prompt players to engage in pvp.  The system does that. 

If you follow that line of thinking then the development of the system has delivered on all counts.  1 problem...the players have created a way to do something you did not intend for the system to do.  If you want players to go from point A to point C along a designated route then you damn well better account for the fact that the players are going to try their hardest to skip point B.  It's the nature of human beings to do this.  If you don't account for it then it's going to hurt you.  That is why it's imperative to have actual gamers trying to "break" your best laid systems.  This needs to be done way before 1 line of code is written.  Sadly most game companies don't do this and it comes back to bite them.  I could cite examples but this post is too damn long anyway.

About this in other MMOs. 

Yes - like has been pointed out SWG was destroyed with simulare system.  That was to be learned from.

WoW?  SInce it was instanced and OBJECTIVE oriented... No - not to the same degree UNTIL they used battlegrounds to give out Arena gear.  And since you could just enter instance and get free honor. .. ppl just stood there and did nothing.   So BLizzard created a system to prevent it to some degree.

The fact is that since open world PVP in AOC is only based on kill or be killed it will always be exploided.  There are no goals in the PVP - other than get items.  So why should ppl not go the easy way of getting PVP XP?  WHo is gonna stop the same 20 ppl from "fighting" in their own "PVP" game somewhere in middle of nowhere ?  Hmmm  - is that anything diffrent than giving a person 100 gold or 1000 cotton ? 

No its not - the system was made this way.  Question is - will Funcom yet again spend manpower on babysiting this system ?   And keep banning ppl randomly like happened with guildleaders at start  - or for ppl jumping in PVP ?  .... lol seriously

This system has major flaws - It has been pointed out.  Now its time for ppl to actually realise that a high reward open world PVP system can NEVER work.  It has been done before and it failed.  Put it into special PVP instance or reward ppl for playing the minigames.  Thats how other games have solved this.

My opinion on PVP is that you should never reward ppl for directly killing another player.  Thats why I look at WOW arena as hugely flawed and now this PVP system as done exactly the same.   Killing ppl should always be done to reach other goals (like minigames). Just getting xp for killing ... no - just no..  But that is just my overall opinion on PVP in general.

But that doesn't change my opinion that current PVP system in AOC is naive and can never work. 

Originally posted by Alan0n

About this in other MMOs. 

Yes - like has been pointed out SWG was destroyed with simulare system.  That was to be learned from.

WoW?  SInce it was instanced and OBJECTIVE oriented... No - not to the same degree UNTIL they used battlegrounds to give out Arena gear.  And since you could just enter instance and get free honor. .. ppl just stood there and did nothing.   So BLizzard created a system to prevent it to some degree.

The fact is that since open world PVP in AOC is only based on kill or be killed it will always be exploided.  There are no goals in the PVP - other than get items.  So why should ppl not go the easy way of getting PVP XP?  WHo is gonna stop the same 20 ppl from "fighting" in their own "PVP" game somewhere in middle of nowhere ?  Hmmm  - is that anything diffrence than giving a person 100 gold or 1000 cotton ? 

No its not - the system was made this way.  Question is - will Funcom yet again spend manpower on babysiting this system ?   And keep banning ppl randomly like happened with guildleaders at start  - or for ppl jumping in PVP ?  .... lol seriously

This system has major flaws - It has been pointed out.  Now its time for ppl to actually realise that a high reward open world PVP system can NEVER work.  It has been done before and it failed.  Put it into special PVP instance or reward ppl for playing the minigames.  Thats how other games have solved this.

My opinion on PVP is that you should never reward ppl for directly killing another player.  Thats why I look at WOW arena and now this PVP system as done exactly the same.   Killing ppl should always be done to reach other goals (like minigames).  But that is just my overall opinion on PVP in general.

But that doesn't change my opinion that current PVP system in AOC is naive and can never work. 

 

FFA PvP is generaly associated with full loot or partial loot. That style of system actually does work for FFA PvP games and has been proven to do so. I prefer full loot others prefer partial loot. Funcom is trying to re-invent the wheel though on this one and failing at it. The pvp xp is a interesting idea though for those that do not enjoy looting or being looted. If they could make it work it could become a new standard. FFA Full loot, FFA Partial Loot and FFA PvP Points lol. It does have (yes the acursed word) potential but it needs to be fleshed out alot more and it's not gonna be something you can dwell on for a day then slap together. It's gonna take a long time of planning researching and thinking it through then developing then testing and so on. If this was there initial plan it doesn't show.

With that said, it can be done and they may pull it together. With the Fugitive system not sure that will go over well at all. That one even they must see as far to flawed at the moment. This system has had way to little thought or effort into it as has the Fugitive system at the moment.

I mean imagine this with the fugitive system lol. AoE's will not flag you right. This can be assumed to have been done to cut down on reverse ganking. Griefers Answer? Easy now they have a free pass to run around and AoE everyone to get them to attack them which would then flad the person that attacked the Griefer lol and if not well Im sure enough AoE spells can do some nice damage to your health lol.

Yes it is a bit naive of them, but it in theory can be done with proper planning and thought given to possible scenarios.

As far as FFA PvP with rewards in general yes they do work and a large community just absolutely loves those style of MMO's. Myself included. I do not like the AoC pvp setup though lol it tried to be FFA PvP with rewards , but just isn't meaningful pvp yet.