General Discussion

Originally posted by KhaelSan

 

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Originally posted by Ephimero
Don't label Aion as an uninspired WoW clone.
NCsoft has done the best to receive WoW users by having similar pets and pevees, but in the end is completely different.
Destructable housing with aerial bombardments, unique classes by adding skills from other classes to yours, raid bosses in open world leading to conflicts, death penalties, the possibility to go to the enemy's lands to even kill their NPCs, fortress sieges with taxing and influence on the zone you control, instancing will be only used on a minor part of the gameplay, no zoning nor tiered content.
The game is level based yes, but it has way more sandboxish elements than any high budget MMO will be having in the future. And the leveling curve is estimated to be around 250 hours from beta reports.
In an interview with the game's designer, he was asked which games inspired him to create Aion, UO was one of them. Koreans were known for loving Ultima games, they also love competitive games, if you take the grind out of that equation you get a winner.

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MUDS/EQ/SB/WOW/Warhammer/Aion... its all the same to me. Maybe there are some graphic differences, but in the core combat system it still the same old.

You press tab a few times to get the right target and your friends press one button to fire their /assist macro.

Hereafter you all press another button to do damage, you dont have to aim because with heat-seeking technology it will always hit, so the good news is you can play with one hand while you drink coffee, smoke a cig, or masturbate with the other hand.

Since there is no collision detection and no friendly fire you can even stack hundreds of people on top of eachother - like in SB sieges lol, and you can all target the same poor bastard, one by one.

In short, it is the same old spreadsheet combat system, that has been used since the 80's MUDS and it requires little or no player skill.

In Darkfall there is NO targetting. You aim manually every combat move be it a swordblow, spells, missiles. And you'd better be careful too, because there is collision detection with friendly fire. You can hit your friends and heal your enemies.

Also there are no names or guild names floating over peoples heads, so you can recognize people only by their looks, or a timeconsuming having to mouse over the target and some limited information will show. You can see how close to death people are, by how bloody they look. Visual cues to tell you who to finish off, or who to heal.

And there is full loot.

Take a few minutes and let all this information sink in and think about what this means.

It means it requires relatively much higher level og player skill to be successful in DF than in these other simplistic spreadsheet games. There are many more factors to success here. You have to be a good player on a personal level, but also have to work well together as a group, to coordinate attacks and healing, so you dont hit the wrong people.

A small group of well coordinated players can win vs a big zerg, because the zerg group will hit eachother and heal you and your friends.

On top of this awesome combat system, think about the fact that equipment and skill levels means little DF, so your friend who started yesterday can easily join your group of veterans and be useful in pvp.

 

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Originally posted by Loke666
A MMO that last years always have timesinks. Players have something that they really wants and it takes a long time getting that. Otherwise there will soon be a time when you have done everything and have the best equipment. Many players quit then.

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Good mmorpgs have well thought out gameplay instead of timesinks. Player conflict, warfare, is the core of the game in DF - this is what will keep your playing year after year. This is how it was on Darktide and in SB and in EVE. When you think back in 10 years, you will remember that year where the guild SUN (just example) mustered their allies and almost succeeded in taking over half of the world, or about the time when the guild Shadowthieves betrayed their former allies and changed side and changed the tide of war.

Guilds will form into nations and try to take over the world. There is endless possibilities here, and it will never get old. Yes there will be some "grind" if you can barely call it that. You will need to gather ressources to build your city defenses and siege engines, but it will hardly feel like a timesink, because every step of the way you will be fighting your enemies for control of these ressources.

 

The DF combat is yet to be seen. Until it's beta tested by real players you should remain skeptic, cause FPS aiming doesn't play well with large scale pvp. Not to talk about friendly fire.

Would be terrible to see how an attempt to create skill based pvp ends up as a best VGA/More cores based pvp.

Originally posted by Ephimero

 

The DF combat is yet to be seen. Until it's beta tested by real players you should remain skeptic, cause FPS aiming doesn't play well with large scale pvp. Not to talk about friendly fire.

Would be terrible to see how an attempt to create skill based pvp ends up as a best VGA/More cores based pvp.

That is the whole idea. You can't just run up to your enemies and start spamming attacks. You have to think on your feet and adapt to the constantly changing battlefield. Also, those on the front line of a zerg group will die. If you use numbers to win those numbers will decrease with each successive battle until reinforcements arrive. If you use well coordinated tactics, you should be rewarded, not find out that the tactics are just for determining who gets the first hit.

I noticed watching a Darkfall Video that it had the FPS aiming system. I dont want to play a game where I am always looking at the back of my character and it looks so awkward when they are slashing in all directions and not even hitting the target.

Aion

War

Darckfall.

thats my openione  ^^

Originally posted by flakmonky

Originally posted by Ephimero

 

The DF combat is yet to be seen. Until it's beta tested by real players you should remain skeptic, cause FPS aiming doesn't play well with large scale pvp. Not to talk about friendly fire.

Would be terrible to see how an attempt to create skill based pvp ends up as a best VGA/More cores based pvp.

 

That is the whole idea. You can't just run up to your enemies and start spamming attacks. You have to think on your feet and adapt to the constantly changing battlefield. Also, those on the front line of a zerg group will die. If you use numbers to win those numbers will decrease with each successive battle until reinforcements arrive. If you use well coordinated tactics, you should be rewarded, not find out that the tactics are just for determining who gets the first hit.

Did you bother reading my post at all?

Im talking about lag mixed with FPS aiming, nothing about the convenience of zerging, which is still wishful thinking btw, 80% of 200 hits>100% of 100 hits.

Originally posted by Ephimero

Originally posted by flakmonky

Originally posted by Ephimero

 

The DF combat is yet to be seen. Until it's beta tested by real players you should remain skeptic, cause FPS aiming doesn't play well with large scale pvp. Not to talk about friendly fire.

Would be terrible to see how an attempt to create skill based pvp ends up as a best VGA/More cores based pvp.

 

That is the whole idea. You can't just run up to your enemies and start spamming attacks. You have to think on your feet and adapt to the constantly changing battlefield. Also, those on the front line of a zerg group will die. If you use numbers to win those numbers will decrease with each successive battle until reinforcements arrive. If you use well coordinated tactics, you should be rewarded, not find out that the tactics are just for determining who gets the first hit.

 

Did you bother reading my post at all?

Im talking about lag mixed with FPS aiming, nothing about the convenience of zerging, which is still wishful thinking btw, 80% of 200 hits>100% of 100 hits.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/205749

Jvac has a nice post about this subject as well.

Lag shouldn't be bad doesn't mean it won't be we will have to wait and see at launch. From just judging how they stated they are dealing with this issue I have to say it doesn't look like it will be as much of an issue as the current MMO's on the market. The type of Server there using plus having automatic scaling on settings to reduce lag when it happens.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Ephimero

Originally posted by flakmonky

Originally posted by Ephimero

 

The DF combat is yet to be seen. Until it's beta tested by real players you should remain skeptic, cause FPS aiming doesn't play well with large scale pvp. Not to talk about friendly fire.

Would be terrible to see how an attempt to create skill based pvp ends up as a best VGA/More cores based pvp.

 

That is the whole idea. You can't just run up to your enemies and start spamming attacks. You have to think on your feet and adapt to the constantly changing battlefield. Also, those on the front line of a zerg group will die. If you use numbers to win those numbers will decrease with each successive battle until reinforcements arrive. If you use well coordinated tactics, you should be rewarded, not find out that the tactics are just for determining who gets the first hit.

 

Did you bother reading my post at all?

Im talking about lag mixed with FPS aiming, nothing about the convenience of zerging, which is still wishful thinking btw, 80% of 200 hits>100% of 100 hits.

 

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/205749

Jvac has a nice post about this subject as well.

Lag shouldn't be bad doesn't mean it won't be we will have to wait and see at launch. From just judging how they stated they are dealing with this issue I have to say it doesn't look like it will be as much of an issue as the current MMO's on the market. The type of Server there using plus having automatic scaling on settings to reduce lag when it happens.

The problem is that in this game Lag will also have a much bigger impact than in other games on the Market. Games like WoW and the like, you can play with up to 500ms and still accomplish something. I doubt you'll be able to say the same for DF.

So they will -HAVE- to reduce lag to an absolute minimum and even then it -could- still be a matter of the person with the best ping having a&nbs