Darkfall

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

 

A very small percentage from that 200k is really interested in  testing. The very  large majority  enter beta  to answer one question : Will i play and buy  these game ?

These is not the right mindset to start testing...Me happen  to participate  in an  public  MMO beta  test  thats open source .   I would say only  2%  - 5% are interested in test plans, most just treat  the game as  free  to play  game alternative. 

Best for testing is done with testers you have in house. You can control their test environment  and the test plans best.  There is really only 1 parameter can be better solved with public outside and that is quantity, all the tests that require just mass connections will be tested in the period planned as Open Beta and planned to be as short as possible.

 But you didn't answer  my other question. How come some  developer declare builds as 'stable'  without  any public  involvement  ?

 

 

Quantitty is one thing you can test. You can also test those game systems which require a full population to reveal need of adjustment. Things such as economy, sieging, etc. If you have the proper monitoring installed you can also spot most of the exploits and bugs, reported or not, before they become a problem. People using exploits may or may not report them but the people who have had them used gainst them certainly will.

Developers who declare their games stable before seeing them tested with a full population are frequently wrong. Why they would say they are is the province of mindreaders. 

And yet, it does not take an entire year to test such things. How long does it take to get an economy running in an mmo? A week? How long does it take for players to find any meaningful exploits? A few days? Why must it take over a month to conduct this testing?

Originally posted by flakmonky

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

 

A very small percentage from that 200k is really interested in  testing. The very  large majority  enter beta  to answer one question : Will i play and buy  these game ?

These is not the right mindset to start testing...Me happen  to participate  in an  public  MMO beta  test  thats open source .   I would say only  2%  - 5% are interested in test plans, most just treat  the game as  free  to play  game alternative. 

Best for testing is done with testers you have in house. You can control their test environment  and the test plans best.  There is really only 1 parameter can be better solved with public outside and that is quantity, all the tests that require just mass connections will be tested in the period planned as Open Beta and planned to be as short as possible.

 But you didn't answer  my other question. How come some  developer declare builds as 'stable'  without  any public  involvement  ?

 

 

Quantitty is one thing you can test. You can also test those game systems which require a full population to reveal need of adjustment. Things such as economy, sieging, etc. If you have the proper monitoring installed you can also spot most of the exploits and bugs, reported or not, before they become a problem. People using exploits may or may not report them but the people who have had them used gainst them certainly will.

Developers who declare their games stable before seeing them tested with a full population are frequently wrong. Why they would say they are is the province of mindreaders. 

 

And yet, it does not take an entire year to test such things. How long does it take to get an economy running in an mmo? A week? How long does it take for players to find any meaningful exploits? A few days? Why must it take over a month to conduct this testing?

Test? Maybe. Fix and retest? No. Economies in MMOs are tricky things. Unless you have a rough balance from the beginning you're going to be living with the damage for months. Exploits on the other hand can resurface in another form even after being "fixed".

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by flakmonky

 

And yet, it does not take an entire year to test such things. How long does it take to get an economy running in an mmo? A week? How long does it take for players to find any meaningful exploits? A few days? Why must it take over a month to conduct this testing?

 

Test? Maybe. Fix and retest? No. Economies in MMOs are tricky things. Unless you have a rough balance from the beginning you're going to be living with the damage for months. Exploits on the other hand can resurface in another form even after being "fixed".

Hence the fact that I am not argueing that it will only take a week. Also, the economy will be entirely player driven (from what I have read, NPC vendors will either be player owned or in the capital cities). This should make it much easier to balance. After all, if something is being made by everyone, it will be cheap. If only a few people can make something, it will be expensive. The item decay will also be very helpful, as the economy will be dynamic. All the starting crafting things will disapear as crafters become better. Thus, new crafters will fill the market for new adventurers' gear, instead of it being everywhere. Finally, due to SCS and the ability to wield any weapon at any time, new characters who have benefactors will not empty the market of starting equips and alts will not exisist (the main form of this problem). Now, how long does it take to balance an economy that is designed to be unstable?

How bout we wait 3 days. I think then we can start claiming victory over the other side.

Originally posted by OutlawVR

How bout we wait 3 days. I think then we can start claiming victory over the other side.

Generally, when you make these comments you also include a clear indicator of which side you are on. The way this comment reads, it seems almost as if you are an e-peen oppourtunist who will say "ha, I told you so" regardless of the outcome.

Edit: I know this is not true, but that is what the comment suggests.

Also, we have no idea yet what the 16th will bring, and many of us fans are delibrately avoiding hoping for Open Beta to start. That way, if it isn't we won't be let down, and if it is it will be much more exhilarating than if we had been expecting it.

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by Yamota

As a software developer and a long time MMORPG veteran I know from experience that having a brief testing period is a misstake. A software, no matter how well designed, will have issues when it is released for a live audience and having this period short and thinking it will be enough is a misstake.

Balancing issue, loopholes, stability issues will all be discovered in the beta test and I strongly doubt that they will be, mostly, fixed or even found in a few weeks.

But time will tell I guess...

 

As developer you know that often developer declare a build 'stable' without anyone from public has seen  or experienced that build ?  How  are these developer  able to do that ?

DarkFall is in Beta since over a year , in this Beta Phase i think they worked on all what you mentioned... like Balancing issue, loopholes and  stability issues.  Why do you think the public outside is more talented in detecting those issues then the developer themselves and their chosen tester ?

 These is a commercial product and as such its not like the open source applications where anyone can download the source code compile it and run a server and remain in beta for ever.

The developer say in nearly every update, we test and we test and we debug, doesn't no one read that lines?

The Public is more talented because...

I mean.. by your logic.. no toddler should ever get the cap of a bottle open.. because the designers thought about  possible way to get it off.. but.. we both know that's not the case..Also, hey think outside the box. 

There is another post on here that talks about the gaming being released this year.. every year for the past 3 years. The video is nice and pretty.. but this isn't the first video.  there was one back.. before the rebuild.  I've been told to just shut up about the gaming be released.. soemthing about it being releases when it is.. The thing is.. Get this.. When you say "This year" You mean.. the current year.  Not.. This year.. as a hpyothetical date..

And to answer..

NO, we are NOT  in the beta yet. 

Originally posted by Random_mage

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by Yamota

As a software developer and a long time MMORPG veteran I know from experience that having a brief testing period is a misstake. A software, no matter how well designed, will have issues when it is released for a live audience and having this period short and thinking it will be enough is a misstake.

Balancing issue, loopholes, stability issues will all be discovered in the beta test and I strongly doubt that they will be, mostly, fixed or even found in a few weeks.

But time will tell I guess...

 

As developer you know that often developer declare a build 'stable' without anyone from public has seen  or experienced that build ?  How  are these developer  able to do that ?

DarkFall is in Beta since over a year , in this Beta Phase i think they worked on all what you mentioned... like Balancing issue, loopholes and  stability issues.  Why do you think the public outside is more talented in detecting those issues then the developer themselves and their chosen tester ?

 These is a commercial product and as such its not like the open source applications where anyone can download the source code compile it and run a server and remain in beta for ever.

The developer say in nearly every update, we test and we test and we debug, doesn't no one read that lines?

 

The Public is more talented because...

I mean.. by your logic.. no toddler should ever get the cap of a bottle open.. because the designers thought about  possible way to get it off.. but.. we both know that's not the case..Also, hey think outside the box. 

There is another post on here that talks about the gaming being released this year.. every year for the past 3 years. The video is nice and pretty.. but this isn't the first video.  there was one back.. before the rebuild.  I've been told to just shut up about the gaming be released.. soemthing about it being releases when it is.. The thing is.. Get this.. When you say "This year" You mean.. the current year.  Not.. This year.. as a hpyothetical date..

And to answer..

NO, we are NOT  in the beta yet. 

Beta started over a year ago, developer are testing with their chosen tester  there are daily new builds they develop and run them, thy are  fixing and cleaning bugs on daily basis. Developing, testing, fixing. Read official info and announcements please.

Only people authorized to declare in what development step DarkFall is are the developers of DarkFall.

flakmonkey

are you so worried ppl will tell you I told you so?

edit: Im hardcore DF believer !! btw