Developers Corner

I was reading an interesting thread about how to define what a game is.  And while trying to define a game is like trying to nail jello to a wall, it did set me to thinking.

Are games that focus mostly or exclusivly on PvE , really considered "games"?  I would argue that games (using the industry term) that feature PvE only are competitions as there is nothing interactive between real people.  Now we can break this argument out into a thousand little pieces and say that were playing against people that designed the game, but I don't think of myself playing the developer anymore than a race car driver thinks about paying against the designer of the track he is racing on.

PvE is an exercise where I try to outperform my opponents but my inability to attack or interfere with my opponent (in most games if they choose) makes games of this type more of a competition similar to the way that golf, skiing and darts are competitions.

Any MMORPG where players compete indirectly for wealth (items, money and raw matierials) and then allow those players to play against one another are really just participating in games within a larger competition.  Usually the winners are those that have the most time to compete.

Time to put the game back into the MMORPG genre......

I have a more general definition of game, any system of rules created for the intention of fun.

But even then PvP does not have to mean fighting, it could be viaing for a position in some ingame organization, trying to dominate the whatever market.  You could make a big intersteller trade MMOG that doesn't even have fight but focuses entirely on the economy, not my idea of fun mind you but it is possible.

But yeah I enjoying PvP of different varieties, though I enjoy playing in a purely cooperative setting too, like the game equivalent of hacky sack.  Both competition and cooperation need to be in game, as both offer different kinds of fun for the player.

Originally posted by CactusmanX

I have a more general definition of game, any system of rules created for the intention of fun.

But even then PvP does not have to mean fighting, it could be viaing for a position in some ingame organization, trying to dominate the whatever market.  You could make a big intersteller trade MMOG that doesn't even have fight but focuses entirely on the economy, not my idea of fun mind you but it is possible.

But yeah I enjoying PvP of different varieties, though I enjoy playing in a purely cooperative setting too, like the game equivalent of hacky sack.  Both competition and cooperation need to be in game, as both offer different kinds of fun for the player.

I admit the title of the post was meant to be an eye catcher, but your definition of any system rules created for the intention of having fun is incomplete. I don't mean to pick your definition apart, but games don't have to be fun, they can be used to teach (might not be fun), to pass time (I teach my kids to make a game out of cleaning their room) and if you have ever seen the "Saw" series you know "games" can be other things.

I think a game, at it's highest level is an interactive, achievement oriented, activity with predefined rules where the participants can effect the success of there opponents within the boundries of the rules.

The point of the post was simply to point out that I'm using the word competition instead of the word game contrasting MMORPG's that center around PvE because they don't fit the definition above.

Golfers cannot effect the success or failure of their opponents.  By my "definition" football is the quintesential game.  There are of course

Let's not get hung up on verbage, try to read between the lines and understand that I'm just calling for an MMORPG that isen't just about what a person can gain, but what a person can loose.

MMOs without PvE are simply todays D&D.  we've simply replaced the DM with a computer.

I think you are reading too far into it.  just because you think you need to be able to effect someone else doesn't mean its not a game.  I mean, I bet you don't teach your kid to mess up the other's room, they both clean, neither stops the other from cleaning.

Originally posted by Majinash

MMOs without PvE are simply todays D&D.  we've simply replaced the DM with a computer.

 

I think you are reading too far into it.  just because you think you need to be able to effect someone else doesn't mean its not a game.  I mean, I bet you don't teach your kid to mess up the other's room, they both clean, neither stops the other from cleaning.

I'm not reading into anything, I'm trying to make a point.  Players gain rewards though thier actions free of the threat of loosing anything (other than time) to other players.

stupid thought processes. u need to learn to filter them from yor head.

I have to say i'm with Chainspell on this one.

If your definition of a "game" is PVP, then you obviously have a warped sense of what a game is meant to be. Its a Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game. Roleplaying. ROLE PLAYING. You create a character with a fictional background and a fictional life, and run around adventuring and exploring dungeons and fighting off "bad guys".

No where in the concept of roleplaying is there "Player  Versus Player = Game".  Go play Counterstrike.

/end rant

couldnt agree more. pvp is only reason i play mmo's,

if i want to kill npc's than i rather play soloplayer games.

Fable2 is around the corner!

- PVE games, feels more like a virtual hangout place, than a game -
 

I can see where you are coming from BUT i don't see how PVP fit's the role any better than PVE, again when you PVP you are in competition are you not? you are competing against other said players for whatever means that it may be, bragging rights, uber gear e.t.c e.t.c. The term MMORPG does not mean should have to be up against another player for the term to hold any merit it simply means it is a place where we can all play together either against or with each other , to journey, to die or to succeed in any way or form that see's us fit.

To me PVE is what floats my boat but i also like a bit of PVP as well, i look back on the day's when i use to roll on D&D and have my stat sheet in font of me, my miniture and my mate's having a scoob and having a ball of a time with home made maps and and landscapes for our little miniure's to  stand around on  :)  we were RP'ing and that is what is missing from MMORPG's these days it no longer holds true to it's name i mean heck near on every game i have played classes are pre rolled and advance on it's own all i do is help with certain stats to help keep it's build true i want total control over my character from the moment i choose my toon i want to determine what stats go in where and when i want to put them there, this is where MMORPG loses it's nut's so to speak. MMORPG's are losing what there title stands for and that is RPG there is plenty of the MMO but not so much RPG.