WAR (Warhammer Online)

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by pixeldogmeat

You guys are just retarded. I ALWAYS have max kills and damage when I do scenarios and I barely ever die in big RVR type raids.

I hide behind rocks, in bushes, basically wherever the enemy players aren't paying attention. I kill all the healers first, usually cycling between the lot of them causing them to be distracted and stop healing, or heal each other or heal themselves. Basically confuse the healers from a distance, wearing them down, while tanks and the other lot of my folks beat them to death.

WAR is about strategy, I've never failed with my SW yet :) I've taken lvl 20s down at level 12 because of my tactics.

You'll see my guide soon.

Also, re-reading this thread, it seems like you people think any of the classes in WAR are solo. This is incorrect, everyone serves a purpose in a team, and if you're not in a team, you suck, i guarantee it. As a SW your job is to basically annoy the enemy casters/healers and deathblow whenever necessary, thats it, its simple and deadly effective.

Anyone who is a master at guild wars would love the SW, it requires thinking.

But seriously guys, any of the classes in the game are awesome if you make them awesome, stop trying to be a WOW cookie cutter character and THINK for yourself!

 

That is very very good impression of SW I'd say and it conforms with what I hear from my three guildie SWs.

With just 3 additional thoughts from me:

1) A SW is in the "utility" category of classes - same as engineer. While they don't really excell in the three basic roles (tank, heal, dps) they have a bag of tricks that makes them extremely useful in any group - much more than just another healer or tank. It is a true "force multiplier" in any group combo.

2) Some classes are more solo and some are better in group. WPs are great solo but they don't add to the "bag of tricks" of the group. SWs are the opposite. If I have my 3 roles filled in a group I'd rather take a SW or engineer than another tank/healer/dps.

3) I somewhat agree with Lobotomist up there. SWs should have some kind of stealth. This is definitely missing from the class that is supposed to be a "silent hunter" type. How would Mythic balance Squig Herders with this is anybody's guess though... Hmm maybe very limited stealth that breaks by moving or attacking but you can activate in combat? Would make sense.. "Now where is that damn sniper...."

I must say it is a cool class to play, but overall the class does not deliver and can easily be replaced with just about anything else in PvP or PvE.  Just because a DPS class doesn't do much DPS doesn't necessarily make it a utility class. 

For example a bright wizard can do just about every single bit of utility that a shadow warrior can do in addition to lots more DPS and maybe a little more utility.  The shadow warrior doesn't really bring anything to a group that is a must have and cannot be brought by a few other classes on top of more utility or raw dps. 

Edit: about stealth

Considering the enormous headaches that Mythic had with scouts in DAOC, I highly doubt you will see the following 3 abilities in one class: 

1. stealth
2. long range
3. high dps

Right now the shadow warrior only has long range, so maybe it could get stealth.  I don't think that would make the class shine though. 

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by pixeldogmeat

You guys are just retarded. I ALWAYS have max kills and damage when I do scenarios and I barely ever die in big RVR type raids.

I hide behind rocks, in bushes, basically wherever the enemy players aren't paying attention. I kill all the healers first, usually cycling between the lot of them causing them to be distracted and stop healing, or heal each other or heal themselves. Basically confuse the healers from a distance, wearing them down, while tanks and the other lot of my folks beat them to death.

WAR is about strategy, I've never failed with my SW yet :) I've taken lvl 20s down at level 12 because of my tactics.

You'll see my guide soon.

Also, re-reading this thread, it seems like you people think any of the classes in WAR are solo. This is incorrect, everyone serves a purpose in a team, and if you're not in a team, you suck, i guarantee it. As a SW your job is to basically annoy the enemy casters/healers and deathblow whenever necessary, thats it, its simple and deadly effective.

Anyone who is a master at guild wars would love the SW, it requires thinking.

But seriously guys, any of the classes in the game are awesome if you make them awesome, stop trying to be a WOW cookie cutter character and THINK for yourself!

 

That is very very good impression of SW I'd say and it conforms with what I hear from my three guildie SWs.

With just 3 additional thoughts from me:

1) A SW is in the "utility" category of classes - same as engineer. While they don't really excell in the three basic roles (tank, heal, dps) they have a bag of tricks that makes them extremely useful in any group - much more than just another healer or tank. It is a true "force multiplier" in any group combo.

2) Some classes are more solo and some are better in group. WPs are great solo but they don't add to the "bag of tricks" of the group. SWs are the opposite. If I have my 3 roles filled in a group I'd rather take a SW or engineer than another tank/healer/dps.

3) I somewhat agree with Lobotomist up there. SWs should have some kind of stealth. This is definitely missing from the class that is supposed to be a "silent hunter" type. How would Mythic balance Squig Herders with this is anybody's guess though... Hmm maybe very limited stealth that breaks by moving or attacking but you can activate in combat? Would make sense.. "Now where is that damn sniper...."

 

 

I must say it is a cool class to play, but overall the class does not deliver and can easily be replaced with just about anything else.  Just because a DPS class doesn't do much DPS doesn't make it a utility class. 

For example a bright wizard can do just about every single bit of utility that a shadow warrior can do in addition to lots more DPS and maybe a little more utility. 

Exactly. Currently, the two glass cannons, do everything they other four RDPS are supposed to be skilled at. Spec DoT for mobility, spec AoE for defense, or spec straight DD for their specific job. Both the Sorc and the BW need to have their CC toned down a ton.

I rolled a Magus alt expecting to be a take and hold 'defensive RDPS' class. I got a mediocer nuker with some pretty bad DoTs and almost no CC and a horrible (currently at least) gimmick. The SW and SH need tactics to make them invunrable to snares, and stealth sounds like a good mechanic for them to get; the Magus and Engineer need turrets that, once set up, repel even the most presistant of attackers.

Originally posted by star.buck

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by pixeldogmeat

You guys are just retarded. I ALWAYS have max kills and damage when I do scenarios and I barely ever die in big RVR type raids.

I hide behind rocks, in bushes, basically wherever the enemy players aren't paying attention. I kill all the healers first, usually cycling between the lot of them causing them to be distracted and stop healing, or heal each other or heal themselves. Basically confuse the healers from a distance, wearing them down, while tanks and the other lot of my folks beat them to death.

WAR is about strategy, I've never failed with my SW yet :) I've taken lvl 20s down at level 12 because of my tactics.

You'll see my guide soon.

Also, re-reading this thread, it seems like you people think any of the classes in WAR are solo. This is incorrect, everyone serves a purpose in a team, and if you're not in a team, you suck, i guarantee it. As a SW your job is to basically annoy the enemy casters/healers and deathblow whenever necessary, thats it, its simple and deadly effective.

Anyone who is a master at guild wars would love the SW, it requires thinking.

But seriously guys, any of the classes in the game are awesome if you make them awesome, stop trying to be a WOW cookie cutter character and THINK for yourself!

 

That is very very good impression of SW I'd say and it conforms with what I hear from my three guildie SWs.

With just 3 additional thoughts from me:

1) A SW is in the "utility" category of classes - same as engineer. While they don't really excell in the three basic roles (tank, heal, dps) they have a bag of tricks that makes them extremely useful in any group - much more than just another healer or tank. It is a true "force multiplier" in any group combo.

Mark, I like you a lot, and I almost always agree with you - but I don't this time.

The SW, Engineer (and Magus and SH) are NOT utility classes.  Their primary function is that of Ranged Damage Per Second. Their snares, roots and the like, allow them to function as per their gimmick - a highly mobile RDPS class. A friend of mine has made some great points on WHA, where people refuse to allow the comparison between the BW/Sorc, and the rest of the Archtype.

Damage should be equal (or near it) without factoring in the classes gimmick/mechanic. BWs and Engineers damage should be near equal, but once the BW starts building up his combustion, BAM. He starts to fill his roll as a primary nuker. Ect, ect. The other 4 RDPS classes currently just ain't cutting it DPS-wise.

Hmm take a look at my post above. As a tank I am out-dpsing BWs in scenarios. In fact I'll take a screenshot or two and post em here.

BWs are glass cannons with NO survivability - in fact their very core mechanic burns them up if they dps to the max. SWs and engineers have much more survivability (lol at least they are not actually dps-ing themselves) but are trading it for lower DPS. Seems quite logical to me - they do steady DPS and if careful they can go on for a long time.

In addition it seems that a 2 SW or 2 engineer combo works surprisingly well. Most other classes don't really play well with themselves (heh) But I've seen what 2 well coordinated engineers can do with kiting and it was like watching kittens play with a mouse with broken legs.

IMO if you take away a classes weakness you remove the element of skill from it. There are even some cries out there to remove the auto-damaging combustion mechanic from BWs... meaning removing just the thing that makes them fun to play.

BW = kill as fast as you can - before you yourself get killed. You do the bulk of the damage, leave those last 10% to those with lower DPS - no need for all that lovely damage to get wasted. You are the most visible class in the game but who cares? Kill fast or die fast.

SW = Be invisible. Do not die. Avoid confrontation. Be the last man standing and finish off the next-to-last. Finish off the wounded before they can get healed. If the enemy sees he's being attacked by you then you're obviously doing something wrong. Change position, stay on periphery. Do not expose yourself. It's best if they don't even know you're here.

See? Two completely and utterly different strategies. If you try to play SW as an "in-your-face" DPS you won't get far - that's a BW's job.

A shadow warrior is just as squishy as a bright wizard and my just have less tools to be "survivable" as you put it.  Trust me when I say this, I would trade the perceived survivability for more damage, because once just about any class decides to kill you they pretty much can. 

I can tell you with a straight face that shadow warriors are very little threat on the battlefield, where as bright wizards are feared.  Hiding in a bush shooting mediocre damage doesn't somehow make the class functional.  An area affect root or optionally talented healing debuff and a few other abilities that just about every class gets does not make you a utility class. 

Ask yourself why that shadow warrior has to hide?  Not that it is even a remote possibility most of the time, but why do they have to hide when other classes do not?  Wouldn't every other ranged dps class do just as well if they could hide and do even more dps if left undetected?  This whole "hide" as a class function is very contrived at best.

As for your tank out dpsing bright wizards that is false.  You are out living them and doing more overall sustained damage, but your actual damage isn't greater than they can put out.  You do not have to stop DPS when someone attacks you, run when attacked, etc.  As long as you are getting heals you are dissproportionatly hard to kill compared to other classes.  Even so when you are not getting heals tanks are very hard to kill and do deal out decent damage. 

I completely agree with Daffid011 on this one. As a Witch Elf, I don't fear the SW. They're laughable. I've had thee SWs FFing me, and (with the assistance of a zealot for about 2-3 seconds + a hot) I was able to take down -all- of them, without getting into a dangerous threshold healthwise.

I want to see an SW from a far, and go 'oh shiiii-' and either stealth, run, or buck up for a hard fight. Which just isn't happening.

I'm not going to lie and say that all of the classes are namby-pamby and fantastic. My mirror, the WH is underpowered atm, most of the RDPS Archtype is underpowered, the Zealot is a chore to play compared to the RP, ect. But these shouldn't be hard fixes, and it's vexing that Mythic hasn't announced their plans for the weaker classes yet.

Originally posted by markoraos

Originally posted by micona

Originally posted by pixeldogmeat

You guys are just retarded. I ALWAYS have max kills and damage when I do scenarios and I barely ever die in big RVR type raids.

I hide behind rocks, in bushes, basically wherever the enemy players aren't paying attention. I kill all the healers first, usually cycling between the lot of them causing them to be distracted and stop healing, or heal each other or heal themselves. Basically confuse the healers from a distance, wearing them down, while tanks and the other lot of my folks beat them to death.

WAR is about strategy, I've never failed with my SW yet :) I've taken lvl 20s down at level 12 because of my tactics.

You'll see my guide soon.

 

 

never can a SW  out dps a BW am sorry your playing a different game , SW is not about being a top dps .

stop talking shiit bout you being top dmg were simply not made for that ,

so much people brag about how good they are in these scenarios and i've must of runned over 100 of them maybe more t'ill T4 and if your group is bad or there a bad mix a classes there nothing you can do no matter how good you think you are .

stop lying .

 

Lol I regularly out-dps Bright Wizards in scenarios and I play a Swordmaster (that's a tank FYI, and I always sword-and-board in RvR as well)

Heh, it's all about how you play, see? For example I never seem to die in scenarios.. I find a nice plump healer. Jump in front of him a few times and put a guard on him, very visibly. Usually this begins a very fruitful relationship where I am immortal (as is my gentle friend) and I never seem to stop hacking at people during those 15 minutes.

another one here that lies here , never die in scenarios that a good one , you out dps a BW with a SM nice lie there , haha i play a Sw and not in a million years your ganna get close to a BW dps with a SW trust me .

your a tank buddy and SM are magical tanks there not even great tanks anyways, IB are way better . IB are best tank in the game imo .

in case you havent notice this game is about team play not about how the single person plays all i hear is how good i am in this and that from these posts and how i i never die because i know how to play better than everyone else .

everyone need a reality check , i.ve played  order and destruction  and 2 different servers open rvr and rp server and dude everyone dies !!!!!

and sometimes you get bad group set up like 6 BW in the same team , and get steamed rolled because destruc are usuallt tanks heavy with good healing support .

please stop this am superman nonsense