General Discussion

Originally posted by Lobotomist

With all due respect to Blizzard as excelent company , I think it is time to say NO to World of Warcraft!

 

12 million users = 12 million reasons for game developers to continue feeding us theme park simplified grind based carrot on the stick abominations they today call MMO

If you go and buy WoTLK you are voting with your wallet for continuation of the trend that destroyed Sandbox , complex virtual worlds.

 

I just want to remind you of that.

Its up to us gamers to vote for a change now.

 

think about what you just said. Because most people don't care. Most wow-players know nothing about mmo's. They just play the game because they like it. We are just that 0.000001% of the players (ex-players) that do know something about mmo's and want a change....  and that's quite hipocrite... There hasen't been a GREAT succesfull mmo since wow. Exept for wow itself. A lot of games came, stayed for a while and went. Lots of games were overhyped ("omfg!!! this game will be THE wowkiller! that game will be the wowkiller!!!.. omfg if you don't believe me what i say your a nub!...." and that kind of ussless crap).. You can say "oh but that one mmo is/was really nice!" oh ye sure, there came out a lot of good stable mmo's, lotro for example, is a good game, healthy community, lots of depth, almost no bugs, GW was/is a good game, other promissing examples like vanguard that was actually a big mistake but now seems to become a good game.... I believe you can think out some examples for yourself. Lot's of companies started making mmo's after the succes of wow to get the money out of your wallet, you probably know the word "wowclone" wowclone here, wowclone there... yes it seems there were/are a lot of wowclones.... (not...) .. There are so manny mmo's today it's hard to choose one, and even more mmo's are comming! I think we will get an overkill soon, and then the mmo market will colapse. Because every mmo brings more of the same. The last time i saw something new was since the release of wow, and even that game stole ideas from daoc, uo and eq! So that's what I mean when I say you're "it's up to us gamers to vote for a change now" is hipocrite... a change, for what? killing x amount of tigers again? collection x amount of boar hides? bring my letter to that shitty person on place x???!!!! is THAT the change??? ah, i guess not. And like I said, most wow players don't care and don't even know they are actually doing the same boring thing over and over again. And that's with actually all mmo's. There should be a dev that should re-found the mmo genre. What we need is some fresh air. And at this moment there is no fresh air.

And as I said: Most people don't care. They will just go to a local gamestore in an hour or so (WOTLK will release in europe in exact 1 hour now!) they buy WOTLK, install the game and play for countless hours again and again and again.......

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Ravanos

most gamers are too stupid or too lazy to handle a sandbox game. thats why SWG failed so bad people logged in and expected the game to funnel thier limited minds into where to go. thats why you had "i'm bored what do i do now?" or a calling for endgame content.

thats why WoW is so successful, it caters to the stupid MEMEME types that need that next piece of loot that brings up my str +1 so i can go on and get that next loot that brings up my STR + 2 woot!!!!

let them stay in WoW its like an asylum for the instant gratification slobs ... games dont need 11 million subscirbers to be successful ... hell eve doesnt have that many players and its hugely successful by mosts opinions. Darkfall, Fallen Earth if they do around EVE's numbers they will be fine.

 

I don't think SWG failed, just because it didn't get the sub numbers of WoW. Even WoW clones don't get the sub numbers of WoW, no game does.

Does that mean every game is a failure except WoW?

Success=profit.

I think SWG would have made a profit if they had left it alone. I think a good SWG type game could make a profit now if you kept development costs down.

I don't think we can define success as doing as many subs as WoW.

Of course Darkfall will have a Billion subscribers, so it will do just fine.

well maybe not failed but it was one of the major reason it wasnt the success it should have been. I bet SWTOR will be a hit because its taking the dumbed down WoW approach to the Star Wars world.

solo oriented
heavy Quest based grinding
cartoon graphics
heavy instanced
uber raids with the uber gear grind.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Frostbite05

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by xaldraxius

 

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Originally posted by Ihmotepp

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Originally posted by Ascension08

 

Just wait for Darkfall or something. You know there's going to be millions of people who pay for the same recycled crap they've done for the last 2 years.

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I agree. Darkfall is releasing in just one month. After that, WoW will be lucky to keep 1 million subscriptions. Darkfall with change the entire MMORPG industry. After Darkfall releases, for the next 4 or 5 years, all games will be Darkfall clones. People will wonder if any game can ever compete with  the success of Darkfall.
It's not up to us gamers, it's up to the developers of Darkfall.

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Wake up Jimmy, you've stained your sheets!

lol...Though I think Darkfall looks like a decent game, and I'll be sure to give it a try, I really don't think it'll have a big following like WoW, just because it is not as simple, or as easy. PvP drives at least 25% of casual gamers away on it's own. Hardcore full loot PvP drives even more away. Not to say that it's bad, or that I don't personally enjoy it, but it does take the fun away for some people. Not to mention the foul mouthed hooligans who delight in making people's gaming expirience miserable. If everyone approached PvP in an honorable way, then perhaps PvP centric MMO's wouldn't have such a bad rep, but that's not going to happen...

and niether is Darkfall going to be the next WoW.

 

Take it back. Darkfall is going to be the bestest game ever! much better than WoW. You are just a hater on Darkfall.

Wait till it releases at the end of December and you'll see how wrong you are.

 

either your being sarcastic your you really need to seek some help bro Darkfall will be a good game but far from the best.

 

That's what they said about WoW.

The reason blizzard has so many subs isnt just because they built the best game. people went to them because they are a known company that has come out with numerous hit titles. Darkfall will not come close. It will do well maybe even pass LOTRO but not WoW.

Originally posted by Ravanos

most gamers are too stupid or too lazy to handle a sandbox game. thats why SWG failed so bad people logged in and expected the game to funnel thier limited minds into where to go. thats why you had "i'm bored what do i do now?" or a calling for endgame content.

OMG, come on.  SWG failed, because it was released at least a year before it was ready and then SOE constantly mismanaged the product since the first patch.  Despite the serious bugs, stability and unfinished nature of the game many many people still played it and held onto hope that the game would get fixed.  

SWG failed 100% because of SOE/LA handling of the game from day 1, even as players have tripped over themselves for years on end to make excuses and held onto hope when any normal person would have already walked away.

Why is it that people will blame everyone and anything except for the companies pumping out crap year after year? 

I think the problem is, there isnt anything els good out there.

All other MMO games that have come out the past 4 years since wow came out where medioric and unfinished and very boring.

I do agree however that wotlk is the same old grind all over again, im looking forward to ST: online for somewhat difrent.

Originally posted by Lobotomist

With all due respect to Blizzard as excelent company , I think it is time to say NO to World of Warcraft!

 

12 million users = 12 million reasons for game developers to continue feeding us theme park simplified grind based carrot on the stick abominations they today call MMO

If you go and buy WoTLK you are voting with your wallet for continuation of the trend that destroyed Sandbox , complex virtual worlds.

 

I just want to remind you of that.

Its up to us gamers to vote for a change now.

 

Wow Really? GTFO nub.

Does it really matter? IS WOW is huge mega success? Yes . The world is nice although cartoony my only beef was i truly loathed the raids. As far as sandbox goes while it is nice it is not a deal breaker.

Originally posted by Lobotomist

With all due respect to Blizzard as excelent company , I think it is time to say NO to World of Warcraft!

 

12 million users = 12 million reasons for game developers to continue feeding us theme park simplified grind based carrot on the stick abominations they today call MMO

If you go and buy WoTLK you are voting with your wallet for continuation of the trend that destroyed Sandbox , complex virtual worlds.

 

I just want to remind you of that.

Its up to us gamers to vote for a change now.

 

I enjoy playing WoW, although I do prefer sandbox games. WoW is about the best game on the market and for good reasons. There's no reason to not play WoW as long as it is fun. People need to quit blaming Blizzards' success for the failure of the sandbox side of the industry. Players, instead, need to redirect the blame to where it belongs, and that's the other developers out there not making the sandbox games. Some developers have have dedicated themselves to creating or maintaining these sandbox games, such as UO, Shadowbane, Saga of Ryzom, and EvE. Other games, such as SWG still retain many elements of a sandbox game, such as player cities, in depth crafting/economy system, and non-combat professions.

You may blame the lack of attention to new sandbox games by developing and production companies on WoW's success, but that's misplacing the blame. You cannot fault a company for creating a good game, because that's what gamers want.

Now perhaps you have different, unwavering, tastes. Maybe you cannot stomach a theme-park type game and can only enjoy sandbox games. If this is true, the problem isn't the developers fault. It's your fault for excluding yourself from certain "types" of games.

Also, realize that a lot of people who did love the earlier games have changed tastes for various reasons. Perhaps MMORPGs took too much time out of real life socializtion. Maybe people weren't able to be as successful in real life due to the amount of time it took to play the game.

That's the one thing many sandbox gamers fail to address. It takes many hours a day of dedication to make a sandbox game fun, because you need to create your own content. You cannot just log on and complete a few quests, a BG, or maybe a 2 hour instance. Instead, you have to act like a community organizer and motivate people to work together to build a city, siege an enemy fortress, or perhaps you're just wanting to explore the dungeon in the swamp. If you're rebuttal is that casual players can just do small things like clear a camp of bandits or a cave of spiders, then what is the difference between playing the theme park game and the sandbox game.

My question to anyone who wants a sandbox type game is: How many hours a day would you play this game, truthfully, and would you consider it healthy enough to make it a standard that everyone in the world play that game for that many hours a day. Now compare those amount of hours required to keep up in a sandbox game or to even make the sandbox game fun, to the type of game that WoW is.

My point is that I love sandbox games, because they give me an alternate world to "live" a virtual life differently than I can in real life. The problem with this is that the virtual life will take over my real life, because it takes a lot of time to get something meaningful accomplished in a sandbox game.

If you want to argue over this, please state examples to support your argument, so we have something of substance to actually talk about.