General Discussion

Originally posted by Ravanos

hopefully developers out there will look at this year and say one thing "hmm maybe trying to make a WoW clone isn't the best idea" (looking at you BIOWARE).

hopefully us gamers will say "hey we want an original thought ... not just WoW with different skins".

Of course making a WOW clone is not a good idea,because WOW is a dumbed down version of EQ2.Who wants to go back 10 years in gaming? not me.

WOW is an entity more than it is a game,that is why it thrives.It started with a bang before anyone even tried the game,so saying it got big because it was good is a misconception.The timing was right,huge populace hitting the MMO genre and the only other competition was bored Eq vets who wanted change.New players coming in don't want to join a seasoned game like EQ or a newer version in EQ2 ,they want to set there mark in a brand new game...hence good timing by WOW release.

These developers nowadays need to realize that the timing is not right to just pop out any clone of any game.At this point in time ,they need to churn out a VERY good project full of content and new ideas,then they could garner a large share of the 35% remaining and probably steal another 25% from bored WOW players.

Problem is here....how do you determine whether a MMO is a flop or not? People are comparing MMOs IMO wrongly. I mean you just can't compare a newly published MMO with a MMO what's now 4 or more years old. Most MMOs get really, really a lot better within one year, all you've to do is to give this MMO a chance and some time to develop,
WoW had this time all MMOs after WoW just never got that kind of chance in the first place. Most players just go around and call a new MMO a flop if it didn't get at least 1 million subscriptions or couldn't beat WoW. A good MMO doesn't need 10 Million accounts more or less, a qualitative good MMO is already doing fine with...well 250k or maybe 150k? WoW just blew this whole market up, I don't even think there are at all that many real accounts in the first place.
Still if we're talking about flops, lets talk about MMOs which were released 2006-2007 and their subscription are so low by now nobody can seriously earn any money with. But certainly not about MMOs which are not even 6 months out...thats ridiculous.

Originally posted by PhoenixWrite

 

Problem is here....how do you determine whether a MMO is a flop or not? People are comparing MMOs IMO wrongly. I mean you just can't compare a newly published MMO with a MMO what's now 4 or more years old. Most MMOs get really, really a lot better within one year, all you've to do is to give this MMO a chance and some time to develop,
WoW had this time all MMOs after WoW just never got that kind of chance in the first place. Most players just go around and call a new MMO a flop if it didn't get at least 1 million subscriptions or couldn't beat WoW. A good MMO doesn't need 10 Million accounts more or less, a qualitative good MMO is already doing fine with...well 250k or maybe 150k? WoW just blew this whole market up, I don't even think there are at all that many real accounts in the first place.
Still if we're talking about flops, lets talk about MMOs which were released 2006-2007 and their subscription are so low by now nobody can seriously earn any money with. But certainly not about MMOs which are not even 6 months out...thats ridiculous.

 

 

Why is it tho that for some strange reason MMORPG's have to come out unfinished. Why do they need a year to test and develop these games until they are decent enough to play.

What happened to making a game complete at launch....isnt that why we are paying 40-60$ for the install.  I really cant understand what happened to making a game, and then having an internal Testing to make it bug free and balanced.  Why are we paying these companies to test bug-test there game for them.

How many Console games or Single player games, or even online games (COD, GOW, C&C) come out completely finished, balanced, and ready to go without any updates. 

Well I realize MMORPG's require more maintance and more variables to configure because of the number of players accessing the game at the same time, but thats not whats going on here.  We are talking about games at release having:

Crap Grahics, unploished effects, poor gameplay, bugs, bad interfaces, undeveloped concepts, and weak plots.

Im starting to think MMORPG's are turning into a fundraising event to Boost the game companies revenus to make console games. 

I just dont see the love in making MMORPG's anymore....ill wait for next years realeases then I might just give it up...

If you're looking for WoW numbers, EVERY game is going to be a flop, period. Any new MMO released has to be perfect and polished at it's release, and loaded with content, or it will be what the OP describes as a flop. Only a small minority of players is going to wait a few months after launch for a game to be tuned and polished into a satisfactory state - these forums are filled with people who quit new games after as little as a few hours of play. I read quotes such as "it just didn't grab me". ADD anyone? Releasing a modern MMO in a highly polished and completed state, with enough content to satisfy players rushing to end game, is pretty much beyond the means of any MMO developer. So the future is: a bunch of niche games and WoW. I'm sure Blizzard is OK with that, you had better be too.

Originally posted by Wizardry

I have always disagreed with any Vanguard talk.The arguments people use are the same things EVERY game goes through,so picking on one game is biased.BTW i knew Vanguard would be on the video before i even watched it,people are brain washed towards Vanguard forever.

Vanguard has boring quests,who would argue that? not i,the problem is that so does EVERY single game out there lol,so that is not an argument for failure.Vanguard has some early glitches ,so does every game.What people don't like to talk about is Vanguards superior graphics and some unique ideas like there card game for one.

Vanguard covers EVERY single aspect of an MMORPG ,the same or better as does any other game out there.Vanguard is now a smooth operating engine as what happens to every game out there if given time.

I have called Vanguard the upgraded EQ2 and EQ2 is the broader version of WOW.If you judge a game to be a flop just based on subscriptions,then yes Vanguard is a flop,but QUALIT Y of a game?Vanguard BLOWS the doors off WOW a game with the most subs.

The whole reason there is so many flops on the gaming scene lately is because of players and there PVP wish list.They won't like any game that does not cater to PVP and the ones who don't care about PVP will get a weaker game because developers think they have to cater there game to PVP.

The MMORPG genre will be back on track when the developers quit this PVP fiascal that is ruining the genre.PVP is a design suited for first person shooters,MMORPG's are NOT FPS's.

Now, now... I have played VG about a year altogether myself. ;)

Its a satirical approach, and while I feel all of these games are WAY behind what they could have been and what they aimed to be, its not to say nobody can have fun in them. I am just so filled with the mediocre games we get. You cant argue that outside of WAR, which is just too new, every MMO of these was way behind their subscription expectations, wether justified or not. I think VG may indeed be a game for some, but as I said... look at the video as some kind of personal outcry or sigh.

You all have one big problem.

I would like you to answer this one simple question....

"Which other company (than the one we all know) put out  200 million dollar in 3 years time to run and develop its MMORPG..."

Ok, now that you know the answer. Please grow up and stop pretending.

And the guy above that even mentioned EQ/EQ2... How pathetic, next time speak the magic words UO and EVE and you will all have the blessing of the other nerds.

Just like I said : stop pretending.

Originally posted by bodypass

You all have one big problem.

I would like you to answer this one simple question....

"Which other company (than the one we all know) put out  200 million dollar in 3 years time to run and develop its MMORPG..."

Ok, now that you know the answer. Please grow up and stop pretending.

And the guy above that even mentioned EQ/EQ2... How pathetic, next time speak the magic words UO and EVE and you will all have the blessing of the other nerds.

Just like I said : stop pretending.

 

 

You are quite the little special education student, aren't you?  Is it really hard for you to comprehend that wow is not a complex, challenging or engaging game to play?  Blizzard my be spending money on research for their next-gen game (only time will tell), but as for WoW, they are sticking with the same dumbed down, easy-button gaming they have had from day one.  There is no new innovation or ground-breaking gameplay being added to that game in the expansion.  There are no new systems or concepts that are blowing people away.  They are spending money on expanding the game, not evolving it.

if you are going to come here with your wow fanboism hanging out, you better bring your A-game, kid.  I would like to see a list of innovative new gaming systems and features Blizzard has introduced with the expansion.  Not new zones, or dungeons, classes, etc, but NEW GAMEPLAY CONCEPTS.  Blizzard can spend all the money in the world on development, but if they aren't finding ways to make these games better, more immersive, and more dynamic, and more FUN, they are useless to me and any other thinking gamer around here.

You run along now and be proud of yourself for playing what you beleive is the best game in the world.  If you are going to come back here and shoot your mouth off, you better bring some real information with you.

Originally posted by bodypass

You all have one big problem.

I would like you to answer this one simple question....

"Which other company (than the one we all know) put out  200 million dollar in 3 years time to run and develop its MMORPG..."

Ok, now that you know the answer. Please grow up and stop pretending.

And the guy above that even mentioned EQ/EQ2... How pathetic, next time speak the magic words UO and EVE and you will all have the blessing of the other nerds.

Just like I said : stop pretending.

 

 

I can't find the quote but I think that $200m was how much has been spent on WoW in total.  That's a unbelievably small amount of money compared to how much revenue it's generated.  To make a new mmo and run it for 3 years with 250k customers would come nowhere near that figure, even with decent expansions.