Aion

Actually, I don't really even die that much in MMORPG... Only game where my character die alot and can delevel is FFXI, but I still had a very good time since the point with easy death is that the mobs are THAT challenging that even one mistake against a boss/god/groundking/seagod will basically kill you and everyone else, not much safety net in that game, but how fast you can gain exp is based on how smart a player you are anyways, so it wasn't a big deal.  Actually after year 2 in FFXI, even the gods feel like a joke now.

However, I am not sure if Aion will apply the system where PK death result in no exp loss as some other MMORPG.  On all other MMO, a really really bad day would mean I died 5 times in 24 hours  One or sometimes even two will always be out of my idiocy to go AFK in a dangerous places.  I am not really worried about the death pentalty much.  PK deaths however, it is a different story.

Death on pvp also has a penalty, an abyss points one.

Originally posted by Ephimero

Death on pvp also has a penalty, an abyss points one.

Considering we'll be dieing many, many times in PvP, the exp loss will be much lower.

I remember reading this a long time ago, gonna need confirmation on this.

A lack of a death penalty will result in never-ending zerging and suicide runs.

For people who are worried about losing exp from pvp: best time to jump in is right after leveling.

Originally posted by Cynthe

What it comes down to is that it's a game and usually games have a losing aspect. Play poker; one of you is going to lose (or more), old style arcade games; you lost you started ALL over ect...

The thing is people are now used to consequence free gaming and while that's ok for some games, there isn't much challenge. Oh but it's not about challenge, it's about fun!! But isn't challenge fun? Do you not play chess to beat the guy and lose your people (I forget what you call them...) ?

Anyhoo, IF the DP was as harsh as L2 I wouldn't be too happy, however I doubt that to be the case. :)

 

You didnt get my point, of course a challange can be fun. Chess is a very good example, mind fucking someone who sees everthing you do without getting your plan an thus defeating him is a very fun thing.

But thats my point there is no challange in mmos. beside the few hours you need to figure out the formulars and maybe well scipted raids wich can be like a riddle.

just as an example loosing all your xp because you pulled to many mobs, or a too strong mob, isnt a challange. if any the challange was to defeat the mob, wich you failed. now you have to kill easy mobs over and over again so you get your xp back.

In essence the harsher the consequence is for failing the more people wont try things at the edge of their ability. for example if you lose all you xp or even your charakter if you die, you will not risk doing something you arent sure you can do without dying. It actually prevents you from exploring the true pontial your charakter has,  since finding that would require you to try stuff at the edge of your current ability and thus inevitable you will fail at somepoint and then you will be punished for trying.

this actually dosent only apply to mmos but to human psyche in general. A kid, for example, wich is beaten for a mistake, and thus associating failure with physical pain, will never freely explore his limits.

and of course, there cant be any advancment without error. since trial and error is the base of any problem solving.

and as a note to that one guy. that you dont need punishment to learn from a mistake is not a matter of opinion. you can watch millions of people do it every day, the question is if you can learn without punishment.

Originally posted by Ambikan

Is the most out-dated and fun-depriving feature of any MMORPGs, and that is exp loss on death, especially when you can actually lose levels from it. If that feature makes it in to the final release, you can totally count me out of this game, and I think there will be many others that feel the same way.

Because?  You're actually afraid of challenge and want everything handed to you on a silver platter?

It's people like you who are ruining the MMO market.

The experience loss should be as harsh as possible. When you die you should lose all experience gained that level so far, knocking  you down to zero at the start of the level you were on. It should equate to a couple days of experience grinding. It should make you so mad that you want to punch your computer.

Real death penalties are the only way to create an environment that players respect and fear which leads to feeling your heart pounding in every battle.

Originally posted by RedwoodSap

The experience loss should be as harsh as possible. When you die you should lose all experience gained that level so far, knocking  you down to zero at the start of the level you were on. It should equate to a couple days of experience grinding. It should make you so mad that you want to punch your computer.

Real death penalties are the only way to create an environment that players respect and fear which leads to feeling your heart pounding in every battle.

Thats actually a interesting point. So basically your looking for the adrenaline rush. While i can see that punishment can in increase it, i dont think that it is rootet in punishment.

I can be punished and still feel only pissed because i have to to the same minial task over and over again, or you can have an andenaline rush withou being potenially punished for not succeeding.

I remeber the feeling very vividly around 10 years back when online Fps had their blooming period. i think gameplay and immersion play a bigger role then punishment. For example in the gameplay i found that short fights, as in the fight is dicided within seconds, are less exiting then long fight because short fights dont have the build up of an suspense (i really hope thats the right word in english). But of course you cant really compare it since mmos require a lot assiduity, wich arguable is contradictory to excitement.

Actually, simple out of curiosity, have you ever played online fps? In my experience they deliver a lot more excitement and adrenaline then mmos.

as a note to the troll:

punishment isnt a challange, punishment is what you get if you fail a challange...

Meh, I'm all for XP loss. Why play a game with all reward and no penalty. It makes strategy more important and makes you work for levels. It also stops 11 year olds from keyboard head rolling to max level and takes away death travel (die to get to GY, GY rez, boom, home).

I've also found XP loss also makes those close fights that much more exciting. I like a game that can actually get my adreniline gland pumping.

Originally posted by tub0rg

In essence the harsher the consequence is for failing the more people wont try things at the edge of their ability. for example if you lose all you xp or even your charakter if you die, you will not risk doing something you arent sure you can do without dying. It actually prevents you from exploring the true pontial your charakter has,  since finding that would require you to try stuff at the edge of your current ability and thus inevitable you will fail at somepoint and then you will be punished for trying.

I can agree with that. And like I said IF the death penalty proves to be gargantuan and dispirits me, I won't play long.

For the moment I simply think this XP loss will be a slap on the wrist: "Don't die! /slap" And a slap you actually feel unlike Eq2 where you only need what a few silvers or coppers to repair your armor? Who cares if you die really, that's too easy in my opinion. BUT in the old days of FFXI when you died that hurt, and I don't want it to THAT extreme either. A nice balance in between would be okay. I say in the old days of FFXI because I played last month and it seems a lot easier now..

The prospect of possibly dying, or not dying should give the player a bit of an adrenaline boost, like said above already, but it shouldn't discourage people from trying out new things either, I totally agree there. ;)