General Discussion

 The us is broke because of fisical irrresponsiblity. Not because of Canada. The cause of the finacial crisis in the us and around the world is due to poor banking rules and regulations. The canadian banks are is sound shape because the Canadian Government protected the back from their own selfishness buy continuing to prevent loose borrow practices.

Do not forget that Canada is the US's biggest export partner as well. You seem to go on the premise that Canada needs the US and that we are piggy backing on them. by your arguments I see it more that the US needs Canada. The US needs Canada's resoucres just as much as Canada needs to sell them to the US. US raises tarifs  and the US citizens pay more for oil, its as simple as that. Go ahead an try to make up the extra money on taxing canadian oil. it won't be long before they realize the need the canadian oil anyways, and it will come at a hight price. What was the result of the softwood luber tarifs? it ment highrer home costs in the US because they still needed to buy the wood. 

Originally posted by GrooMan

 The us is broke because of fisical irrresponsiblity. Not because of Canada.

The trade imbalance between the U.S. and Canada contributes to our deficit, not to mention the loss of revenue from no taxes.  Simply put, more goods/services go from Canada to the U.S. in exchange for capital; you are sending goods, sustaining Canadian jobs, and we are sending money.  We are not using that money to invest here, in the United States.

I just want to tax oil, though, and I mention Canada's dependence on the U.S. (over 80%) as an aside to demonstrate how much Canada needs the U.S. for everything.

Originally posted by daeandor

Wow, this thread really got derailed between the time I posted and now...

 

You are all acting pretty juvinile in all honestly.  Declaredemer, is a professional troll, but what does that have to do with a topic he started?  Which got derailed by others?  And now deserves, honestly, to be locked?

The topic itself is null due to the fact that declaredemer is not who he claims to be and was the only person supporting the ideas put foward in his original post.

We all agree with each other and the only opposition is a troll's persona...

This thread is a great example of trolling and flaming - it even has an asshat popping in a few times.

The problem with this thread as a troll thread is that the author claims to be unaware that he is the textbook definition of a troll and so refuses to stop posting even after his identity deception has been uncovered.

Lock this thread.

It's funny to me how he mentions the 97 Canadians in almost every second post as a counter point although he berated you for using it. Almost to the point of going over the top in hysterics.

Also it was your government (and the big business counterparts) that allowed the current circumstances. Canada did not cause the recession.You keep bringing up point after point about Canada this,Canada that. Yet I have seen little in the way of hard facts from you other than your own suppositions. I provided a link that showed drug prices for both the US and Canada, straight from the FDA. You pointedly ignored it and carried on with your vendetta. You stated that R&D costs are paid for by U.S citizens, implying that only in America is research being done on any new drug. But anyone with a modicum of intelligence would understand that any major drug companies are global entities that have research and distribution across the world, not just in the U.S. It was pointed out that R&D is paid for by the drug company and the failing is that the U.S allows said company to sell their drugs at a higher price than in Canada. Canada tells them they can only sell within a certain range, why doesn't the U.S government do the same?

You further state that America is paying to defend Canada. Yet you have no hard facts to back this up other than your own insights. Point of fact is that Canada has assisted the U.S with military and medical support multiple times over the last few years, especially during the hurricane seasons. We have sent military medical transport planes and service people. We sent military servicemen/woman to help with sandbagging,or shoring up dikes/ditches. We went door to door in affected areas offering assistance. Why? Not because NATO said we had to,but rather because the U.S government asked for our assistance and we gladly helped. We don't come to a message board and piss and moan because we had to help our ally. Nor do we blame our current circumstances on them. You state that we are starting a conflict with Russia in regards to oil. Yet if you had read any of the posts pertaining to it you would see that diplomatic action has been in the works for a long while. I find it interesting though, that you automatically seem to assume that there will be an actual war over it and that the U.S will have to help us.

If you are so upset about your current circumstances then I would suggest you look to where the blame truley lies and stop pointing fingers.

Not sure what your vendetta is with Canadians but this whole thread at least to me is nothing more than your thinly veiled attempts to say " I hate Canadians", regardless of whatever you state. So due to the facts I posted above and your "It's not fair" attitude you are little more than a troll at this time.

Originally posted by Sithos

It's funny to me how he mentions the 97 Canadians in almost every second post as a counter point although he berated you for using it. Almost to the point of going over the top in hysterics.

Also it was your government (and the big business counterparts) that allowed the current circumstances. Canada did not cause the recession.You keep bringing up point after point about Canada this,Canada that. Yet I have seen little in the way of hard facts from you other than your own suppositions. I provided a link that showed drug prices for both the US and Canada, straight from the FDA. You pointedly ignored it and carried on with your vendetta. You stated that R&D costs are paid for by U.S citizens, implying that only in America is research being done on any new drug. But anyone with a modicum of intelligence would understand that any major drug companies are global entities that have research and distribution across the world, not just in the U.S. It was pointed out that R&D is paid for by the drug company and the failing is that the U.S allows said company to sell their drugs at a higher price than in Canada. Canada tells them they can only sell within a certain range, why doesn't the U.S government do the same?

You further state that America is paying to defend Canada. Yet you have no hard facts to back this up other than your own insights. Point of fact is that Canada has assisted the U.S with military and medical support multiple times over the last few years, especially during the hurricane seasons. We have sent military medical transport planes and service people. We sent military servicemen/woman to help with sandbagging,or shoring up dikes/ditches. We went door to door in affected areas offering assistance. Why? Not because NATO said we had to,but rather because the U.S government asked for our assistance and we gladly helped. We don't come to a message board and piss and moan because we had to help our ally. Nor do we blame our current circumstances on them. You state that we are starting a conflict with Russia in regards to oil. Yet if you had read any of the posts pertaining to it you would see that diplomatic action has been in the works for a long while. I find it interesting though, that you automatically seem to assume that there will be an actual war over it and that the U.S will have to help us.

If you are so upset about your current circumstances then I would suggest you look to where the blame truley lies and stop pointing fingers.

Not sure what your vendetta is with Canadians but this whole thread at least to me is nothing more than your thinly veiled attempts to say " I hate Canadians", regardless of whatever you state. So due to the facts I posted above and your "It's not fair" attitude you are little more than a troll at this time.

This was very well stated, and I fully agree. I don't diasagree that Canada needs the US, but I would like to see the OP at least make some concession that the US has a dependence on Canada, and does regularly ask Canada for assistance.

1. American taxpayers (consumers, really) pay for Canadians' low-cost prescription drugs.  The cost-savings that Canadians enjoy -substantial cost savings- is born by Americans.  You could say it is our fault because we will not allow our government to control prices in our for-profit health care model/system.  
2. Canada relies on the United States for its defense and protection, and there is no doubt it.  To argue to the contrary is absurd if not dishonest.  No.  It is dishonest.  
3. Canada depends on the United States for its prosperity and receives tax and trade advantages from the United States it could not obtain elsewhere. 

All I want is Canada to pay for the costs of

• Defense;
• Prescription Drugs; and
• Oil.

You know what has somewhat troubled me, though I think invoking the lives of 97 Canadians was to take this topic and turn it into something dishonorable, is how passionate people are.

I have people literally, and I mean literally, try to use crocodile tears, the deaths of their own soldiers, and vicious name-calling on this issue. 

Edit:  The attempt to hijack, silence, shout-off-the-stage - FAILED.  Freedom of speech/argument/thought continues to prevail. You see this sometimes happen, usually on abortion issues and that sort-of thing, but it is slightly funny to see the opposition try to silence on U.S.-Canadian relationship and the net gain to Canadians and costs to the U.S. taxpayer.

1. Attack 1:  invoking the deaths of 97 brave, honorable soldiers - shameful;
2. Attack 2:  name-calling such as "moron!" and "ingrate!" - typical (not offensive to me);
3. Attack 3:  something about a "persona" - l m f a o.
4. Attack 4:  unknown. 

I wonder if they would defend their own mothers --well, there are two of them-- with the same passion as they have here.  The mystery and tragedy of it is how that is not the issue.  The issue is not "liking" Canada; this issue is not calling Canada a name; and the issue is not invading Canada.

• The issue is, simply, should Canadians contribute more for its defense, prescription drugs, and should its oil exports be taxed by the United States?  
  • We cannot afford to defend Canada, Japan, and others. 
  • Moreover, our health care system is too expensive, in part, because of the R&D costs passed on to Americans because Canada's government (and others) control costs.
  • We allow Canada to acquire incredible wealth because of its natural resource exports into the United States, and a country who is broke ought to tax the oil, at least. 

An attempt to make this topic, or hijack this discussion, about brave soldiers murdered in Afghanistan at the hands of evil terrorists is worse than wrong.  It is worse than wrong.  And you cannot say that enough.

Moreover, it is not about tug-of-war competitions.  It really is not.  It has nothing to do with it.

Edit 2:  I like Canadians as much as anyone else - but that is not the issue.  The issue is the fairness to U.S. taxpayers in the area of defense, drugs, and oil.

 On a per capita bases Canada pays just as much if not more for perscription drugs. this is mainly due to what I pointed out before, the higher costs of generic forms of brand name drugs. you mentiond previously that generic drug companies have to pay high royalties to the brand name company. Although the brand name companies are not making as much on their brand name drugs in Canada, they make up for it by the extra royalties collected on generic durgs in Canada, which sell for as much a 50% more than in the US.

You also have to remember that the new drugs that you want Canada to pay for the R&D of are not even availible in Canada for several years after they hit the consumer market in the US. If the Drug companies want to recoup thier R&D cost on new drugs with in a few years, you can be sure that they will have to get that money from the US, because most likely they won't be able to sell it in Canada during that time.

 Liptor is a great drug for lowering Cholestoral, it was developed in 1997. but has not been availible to Canadians until 2005. Perhaps the higher cost of liptor is worth it since the US was able to use it 8 years before Canadians were. Why should Canada subsidize the R&D costs of drugs that Canadians can't even purchase? by the time Lipotor hit the Canadian market the R&D costs were well covered, and in 2011 when generic forms of Lipitor are developed The Us will be paying less for it while Canadians will be paying more.