General Discussion

Originally posted by DaX.9

... stormreach is closest pen and paper MMORPG on the market. And if lack of PVP is why all the people do not like it, then they misunderstood core meaning of D&D. If instncing is bothering you, then you misunderstood core meaning of D&D, if must group is bothering you, then you have misunderstood core meaning of D&D.

You sir, misunderstand the core meaning of mmorpg if you cant understand how a well open,  consequence-based, risk/rewward contributory-based, non-switched and non-instanced based PvP system is the backbone of of a mmorpg. . .take the suspensful and surprising aspect of unplanned PvP out of a multiplayer game and it is no longer a mmorpg imho. . .yet it could still be a great single-player game with the illusion of playing against multiple players rather than predictable computer controlled mobs imho.

DDO is a horrid joke compared to D&D.

The do quests over and over at different difficultly levels.

The safe little temple rooms .

The deficiency of outdoor adventure.

The stupid character design.

The lack of real consequence on death

etc...

ALL turn the game into a simple little generic crawler.They took the worst parts of D&D,exaggerated them and combined with the worst ways of MMO s ,used them to create a simplistic kiddie game.

Theres no feel of a world, theres no feel of consequence, theres no feel of connection to the character,its all stats,powers, and crawls.Its a wetdream for those into rollplay though.

Notice, i didnt say roleplay.

i said core of D&D not mmorpg. read before attacking!

Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

Originally posted by DaX.9

... stormreach is closest pen and paper MMORPG on the market. And if lack of PVP is why all the people do not like it, then they misunderstood core meaning of D&D. If instncing is bothering you, then you misunderstood core meaning of D&D, if must group is bothering you, then you have misunderstood core meaning of D&D.

 

You sir, misunderstand the core meaning of mmorpg if you cant understand how a well open,  consequence-based, risk/rewward contributory-based, non-switched and non-instanced based PvP system is the backbone of of a mmorpg. . .take the suspensful and surprising aspect of unplanned PvP out of a multiplayer game and it is no longer a mmorpg imho. . .yet it could still be a great single-player game with the illusion of playing against multiple players rather than predictable computer controlled mobs imho.

Well, that's an opiinion and you are welcome to it but I feel pretty confident that there are numerous people who don't share it. That's probably why there aren't as many games on the market that cater to it.

As far as DDO goes, what really made it "better" for me was realizing that Dungeons and Dragons was about whatever campaign the Dungeon Master made and the players willing to play it.

When I was younger and played D&D I could go to one friend's house and play one type of campaign, go to another and play another campaign and then run my own campaign.

Realizing that D&D is whatever the people make of it. And as Gary Gygax said (and I would agree), if you don't like something in the rules or how something playes, change it, throw it out, make it different. It's your game.

So DDO is just Turbine's campaign. By accepting that it was a lot easier to stomach the world setting.

And I do thing that DaX.9 is slightly incorrect on that. D&D can have pvp and in some of our sessions we had it. Especially if there were evil characters i the group.

But again, If one doesn't like pvp then in no way shape or form can pvp be a core component of an mmo. It would only be a hindrance.

Saying that what you like is a "core component" doesn't necessarily make it one. For you maybe, sure, but as we can see, many don't share this belief.

Originally posted by tkobo

DDO is a horrid joke compared to D&D.

The do quests over and over at different difficultly levels.

The safe little temple rooms .

The deficiency of outdoor adventure.

The stupid character design.

The lack of real consequence on death

etc...

ALL turn the game into a simple little generic crawler.They took the worst parts of D&D,exaggerated them and combined with the worst ways of MMO s ,used them to create a simplistic kiddie game.

Theres no feel of a world, theres no feel of consequence, theres no feel of connection to the character,its all stats,powers, and crawls.Its a wetdream for those into rollplay though.

Notice, i didnt say roleplay.

 

^

Originally posted by tkobo

DDO is a horrid joke compared to D&D.

The do quests over and over at different difficultly levels.

The safe little temple rooms .

The deficiency of outdoor adventure.

The stupid character design.

The lack of real consequence on death

etc...

ALL turn the game into a simple little generic crawler.They took the worst parts of D&D,exaggerated them and combined with the worst ways of MMO s ,used them to create a simplistic kiddie game.

Theres no feel of a world, theres no feel of consequence, theres no feel of connection to the character,its all stats,powers, and crawls.Its a wetdream for those into rollplay though.

Notice, i didnt say roleplay.

 

I have to agree the character design is hit or miss.

As far as the quests, I don't mind running them a few times, but what they really need to do is to give the players the ability to make their own campaigns. Of course, all items in a player made campaign would be only usable in the particular player campaign they found them in.

However some of your other statements seem a bit incongrous to many of the D&D games that I've played. Consequence on death? I've never really seen any consequence of death in D&D.

Oh sure some dm's might have perma death but usually there was always a work around.

And outdoorr adeventures? Well possibly but most of the D&D campaigns I've been in were about the dungeons, or temples or inside adventures.

not to say you couldn't have outdoor adventures but usually the outdoors was something you quickly travelled through to get to the dungeon.

It sounds to me that you might be more engaged with the mmo part and less of the D&D part?

But then again, it depends on what your dungeon master did with the campaigns you were in. Maybe he did enforce permadeath and had more outdoor adventures. Though mapping them must have been a joy.

Originally posted by bcrankshaw

Originally posted by Alcuin

It's a wild guess, but I'd say that Wizards of the Coast doesn't want to pay royalties to the creators of the Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk (which are both holdovers from when the company was owned by TSR, if I'm not mistaken- please correct me if I'm wrong).

The reason they may have continued developing FR is that it is so successful and thus, profitable.

Ebberon, if you remember, was created by an individual who won a contest.  I wonder how much of a stake he still has in the profits.

I happen to not care about the reasons, I just wish they would do it.  Imagining a FR MMO is something I do often.  They could get Bob Salvatore to write quests for it!

 

Here's hoping that someday will come...

 

Alcuin Bob Salvatore is involved in a new MMO called Copernicus ,,,and if thats not enough Todd Mcfarlane is involved in the art ...check it out .It has huge potential

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/09/22/agdc-interview-with-brett-close-ceo-of-curt-schillings-38-stu/

Sounds pretty interesting.  Will have to keep my eye on this one, could have some potential...

Nice!

Three successful guys getting together to create a game they'd love to play themselves...

And they all have enough money to do it the way they want...

I would have liked to see an open world Forgotten Realms.

I would have liked to see Ten Towns, and Icewind Dale, The Spine of the World, and all that stuff.</