Star Wars: The Old Republic

.......2 years ago I would've said something like that, But then I tried the (unnamed project), and realized, without a community the game could not stand on its own, and other words pre-cu was only fun because the people around you made it fun whether directly or indirectly.

When I first tried SWG back in the day I had a blast, but after all the exploration was done, the profession I wanted ground out and I had the loot I wanted the only thing keeping me playing was the people I knew. There were few quests, no real story to follow no real reason to continue to play other than boring and pointless PvE , imbalanced PvP, crafting stuff new or few people would bother buying because you didn’t make the best stated items, and of course the Jedi grind. Granted the NGE is truly a piece of shit even though they have added a lot, but then again so was pre-cu with all it’s sandboxy openness. If pre-cu SWG had no point, NGE makes no sense with its point. It’s a mess, for real. We have Clone wars, we have ANH, ESB, RoTJ, Old republic, and some shit I swear they just stole from Ultima Online and Everquest. It's like they built the world first, then said uhhh, we have to come up with a story now? bah people will buy it cause its Star Wars. it doesn’t 't need a point.

No idea what the attachment I had to pre-cu was because to be honest if they brought it back now I still wouldn't bother staying because the friends I had left years ago; even as far back as 2004 around the beta of WoW, before JTL launched. The game was dying then and has continued to slowly die over its 5 year life span. Yes there were more people playing back then, but most have left, returned, then left again forever. Obviously something has always been wrong with SWG even though we had fun in it. I’m not saying it had no redeeming qualities about it, I’m just saying it’s wasn’t and isn’t all that. But then again most games on the market are lacking (something) What would that be? Fun maybe? Now I’m pretty much neutral and unfeeling about SWG, it could have been a great game, but it wasn’t and I don’t really care anymore.

With all that said, do you really want TOR to be SWG 2.0? I don’t! There are some features I think would work in any MMO that has been missing and I think (and hope) BioWare figured out what that element is. Lets be honest here, no one here knows what the final classes are gonna be, no one here knows how open ended the world will be (but based on a recent interview it seems likely) No one knows exactly how the PvP system will be structured, no one knows how the crafting system is structured, and no one knows how player housing will be handled. Have we seen any updates on space yet? Nope.

As for the art all I can say is almost every Beta Shot I’ve seen for any game has ended up being way different from the final product. WAR’s early shots differed from the final product, LOTRO has changed a lot since I beta tested it, WoW looked ten times worse in alpha then it does now. Some of the early tech demo shots of SWG were far beyond anything you even see in the game currently because they were static representation shots, not actual game play shots. I’m sure the final TOR will look nothing like it does even right this very moment.

below are some early SWG concept shots

Point is people who are complaining because it’s not SWG 2.0 should just sit tight. Change your expectations and look at this as a NEW game, but don’t lower your expectations on quality. This is a new game, not SWG 2.0 and to expect anything else isn’t really being fair to yourself or anyone else looking forward to trying it.

Wondering where all you old friends are from 3-4 years ago? Go take a look around the forums over there. A lot of the people I knew went to go play other MMOs after they left SWG and are now filtering thru the TOR forums.

All I’m saying is stop with the complaining. I’m a SWG refugee but there comes a time when you should really just get over it and move on. We all agree, the NGE is crap, SWG is crap, people who like it amuse us, but we once liked it as well and people laughed at us for it. Now is the chance for a company to redeem the Star Wars MMO legacy, try not to ruin it by all the whining to where old friends and potential new friends say “fuck that game”. LEC could’ve just said FU, no more SW MMO we have been screaming about for years now, but to some of us they listened, because we are getting a new SW MMO.

I’m not saying OMG this will be the best game eva, I’m just sayin just fucking shut up, sit back and wait before you complain about everything that as far we know doesn’t even exist yet. Unless you just like complaining and making yourself look anal, then by all means, have a ball. But you’re only doing yourself a disservice; will anything truly ever make you happy?

-Vanive

"All I’m saying is stop with the complaining. I’m a SWG refugee but there comes a time when you should really just get over it and move on. We all agree, the NGE is crap, SWG is crap, people who like it amuse us, but we once liked it as well and people laughed at us for it. Now is the chance for a company to redeem the Star Wars MMO legacy, try not to ruin it by all the whining to where old friends and potential new friends say “fuck that game”. LEC could’ve just said FU, no more SW MMO we have been screaming about for years now, but to some of us they listened, because we are getting a new SW MMO."

In my opinion, this is the most important part of your post.

As a launch day person of SWG that continues to play today those screenshots you have are exactly what the game looks like, there was almost no difference between the concept art and what was put into the game.

Agree or not that is my opinion.

Originally posted by Gutboy

As a launch day person of SWG that continues to play today those screenshots you have are exactly what the game looks like, there was almost no difference between the concept art and what was put into the game.

Agree or not that is my opinion.

The buildings in the current game look a lot better, the avatar faces are not as detailed as in that screenshot, Jawas look nothing like that shot up close and the sand on Tattooine looks nothing like those static 3D mock ups. Those pictures are not actually from SWG as it exsists currently, just digital mock ups, but hey you are free to think what you want. This is actually what people ended up seeing

www.subnova.com/library/view/images/endor9.jpg

 I'm less worried about them making SWG2, than I am about them making WoW2.

See, SWG never had the brain-dead mass-market appeal they are going for here. So SWG2 obviously is out.

BUT...will the game have enough sandbox elements to avoid becoming just another WoW clone??? THAT is the real question at this point.

The reason that escapes the OP for why he loved pre-cu SWG was the community that was built due to the sandbox nature of the game, bolstered by rich non-combat and social systems.  The non-combat systems and classes were every bit as rich as the combat systems.  I have no problem remembering what it was about SWG that I loved.  It was the people, the community, which was enabled by the game's ability to let them truly forge their own path in the game. 

By comparison to today's (few) polished MMO's, the game itself was completely incoherent and broken.  We all knew that.  There were few quests, many of which were bugged, and the whole game was mostly grind.  What kept people playing for *years* was the community. I had more fun having random player driven adventures in SWG than I have on any scripted or non-scripted quest in modern games.

Let me list a few things I did in SWG that I can't really do in any other game.  I am an outdoorsman in real life, so when I realized the flexibility of SWG would let me mimic this in the game, I was all over it.  It didnt even really seemed like role playing to me, because it was just natural.  The game had a tendancy to put players in character in their heads, so the rest would come out naturally.

1) I created a toon who's job was owning/running  "Back country" stores that sold stuff to people who were out in the middle of no where, hunting or questing.  My shops were themed and decorated to give one the feel of walking into a mountain store where things like camping/hunting gear were sold (camps, food, pet food, fishing bait, meds, etc).  Since I could place my shops pretty much anywhere I wanted in the game world, I would find quiet place out in the wilderness  (yes SWG had wilderness)  where I knew people liked to grind certain mobs. I would make my vendor NPC look like he was dressed for a fishing trip, and when he talked to you, he was in-character.  People *loved* my stores, and even though I didnt' make a ton of money off of them, the atmosphere I brought to to the game, and the friendships I made through selling and buying things from other crafters to sell in my shop were amazing.

2) To go along with my back country shop owner, I wanted to create a hunting toon that could supply hides and other things I needed for the shops.  I rolled a Master Ranger / Master Rifleman.  I would get on the SWG forums and post advertisements as a Ranger for Hire.  Through the skills and flexibility of the game, I was able to create a toon that was something similar to a survivalist.  People would hire me to lead expeditions to find Krayt Dragons, or some other mobs they knew where hard to find.  Other crafters would hire me to do contract hunting for rare materials they needed to make great gear. I built a lot of relationships with other players, and had too many fun adventures to count.   

Sometimes I would just be sitting out in the middle of nowhere at my campfire / tent and some other players would stumble upon me.  I would offer them to join me for some food and chat, and sometimes they would go on their way, or ask me to join them on an adventure. No matter what happened, the fact that you could stumble upon a player in the middle of nowhere (SWG is HUGE), and have an interaction such as this was incredible.

3) My large house was a "Hunting Lodge" open to the public.  People may not know this if they didnt' play the game, but nearly *everything* you could have in your inventory in SWG had a real 3D model, and could be dropped in your homes or shops.  SWG had a clunky but flexible system to allow you to arrange, oveylap and place these items pretty much any way you wanted in your home.  The results of this are player-created themed creations such as Cantinas, lodges, temples , general stores, gun stores, restaurants, hotels, hospitals and even just elaborate, awe-inspiring homes. Your imagination was your main limit here.

Going along with my outdoorsmen theme, I created a Hunting lodge and made my sign outside so people would know to come in and take a look at it.  I spent many, many of hours over months to get this place set up the way I wanted it, and the result was awesome.  I would get random messages from people in the game who saw my sign and stepped in to see that I had created. They would compliment me and tell me how awesome it was.  Some people used it as a lodge and came back frequently.

-----------------------------------

I want to say something again that I touched on above.  I am not really a roll player.  I don't have anything against roll playing, but it has never been my thing.  SWG's sandbox game play just made it easy and natural to step into the shoes of your toon.  I wouldn't call what I was doing roll playing in the traditional sense, but I definitely was in-character most of the time. 

I know I did a horrible job above of explaining what I did in SWG. I only scratched the surface of the true experience.  The main point I want you to take away from the above was that combat was only a potion of what I did in the game.  It was essential to me because I love killing stuff too, but it was only part of my whole experience.  There were days I would just hunt and quest, and there were days I would craft, or gather resources, or just interact with other players.  What mmo today offers a rich experience outside of combat and questing?

My 'outdoorsmen' experience was mine.  You can talk to countless other people who made their own path through the Star Wars universe that was completely different, and equally as deep.  We weren't stuck playing one of a handful of done-to-death arch classes like we are today.

Originally posted by Wharmaster

 I'm less worried about them making SWG2, than I am about them making WoW2.

See, SWG never had the brain-dead mass-market appeal they are going for here. So SWG2 obviously is out.

BUT...will the game have enough sandbox elements to avoid becoming just another WoW clone??? THAT is the real question at this point.

I have to seriously agree with you. The last thing I want to play is World of Wacraft\Hammer in a Star Wars Universe. This is my fear for this game.