General Discussion

Just for fun, the Christian and Jewish faith would both be rendered useless if the first few chapters of Genesis was not literal. That does not mean that the first few chapters were 100% chronological, but if Adam really did not exist then the entire premise of the Abrahamic covenant > Christ is a man made supertistion. The entire Christian faith rests upon the Abrahamic convenant which stemmed from Adam. Jesus has to be a literal decendant of a literal Adam for Christianity to work. There is much to say on such a topic, mainly regarding redemption and the narritive of such an epic drama, but I'll leave it there for now as I am running late for class.

Blessings and please excuse my spelling errors! :)

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

Originally posted by Fishermage

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

Originally posted by Fishermage

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

Originally posted by Fishermage

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

Religion is a sicknes, a mind warping, crutch. A series of thoughts and ideals clung too by weaker men and exploited by the evil ones.  And while religion has some noble ideas in theory, every great war, tradgedy and massacre can be traced back to some religion, all religions, every one of them have their demons. These arent just my beliefs, they are fact.

It doesnt even matter if buddha or whatever fat man was being confused for him prophecized the comming of a white man with blonde hair in blue eyes being born in the heart of isreal. Most people dont even know that the story of Jesus is just a spin off of the story of Osiris and the virgin Isis and her son Horus. A black pharroh in egypt,t he story of jesus is the exact same story, word for word with some key substitutions. The story originated 5000 years before the birth of christ.

 

This doesnt mean jesus was bullshit or that he was blakc, it just goes to show all religions are fairy tales used to govern uncivilized man and the greatest tragedy is that people still use that shit as a crutch in the world today.

 

What if you are wrong and there is a God, and Jesus was his son, and was crucified and resurrected? Either these things are facts or they are not. What if you are wrong about the facts?

How do you know you are not?

I have spent a lifetime studying the myths you are discussing, and find your interpretation 9which mine used to be quite similar by the way) to be lacking. How deeply have you studied the claims you are making and the arguments against them, or different interpretations of what you are saying?

 

What if i am wrong, im quite certain we are all fucking wrong about god, the after life, heaven and hell and every other uncertainty we claim with aboslute certainty we know all about. You dont know a damn thing about god the same way i dont.

What i do know is, i am content with not knowing what happens after death, unlike most religions which just choose to make shit up. Heaven and hell is absolute garbage, somethng used to govern man with fear, if you are good in life you go someplace good if you are bad you pay for it, make sense yeah, but living your life in fear doesnt make youa  great person, being religious doesnt make you better then anyone, it just means you would go around killing people, or raping people or whatever because nobody said you would be punished for it.

That is basically the purpose of it, hell, i can imagine a bunch of noblemen and politicians back in the day scheming around a big stone table with some mead making up the rules and calling it "Quotes from god". It started off great too; If you kill someone, you goto hell, if you steal, you goto hell.... then they started getting a little crazy, if you disrespect your parents you goto hell, if you commit adultary you goto hell, if you create a false idol of your god you goto hell, the one that seems to fly right over christians heads since they all seem to worship their tortured lord on a cross, why the son of god would like to be remembered in his worst hour is beyond me.

But yes, what if i am wrong, what if jesus did die and was ressurected... but what if you are wrong, what if his name wasnt Jesus, and there was no god.. IN FACT, his name was Kalel. and he could fly.. and he was super strong, and he didnt turn water into wine but he moved so fast that he was able to give people that illusion, and his great stories traversed time and he what we regard as the man of steel today,

That's right! What if Jesus H. Christ was not Jesus, but just a mix up, but he was actually Kalel from krypton, and it wasnt Lucifer that was cause shit and had to be banished but Lex Luther. I think i am on to soemthing, i mean those old sand text get old and degraded, text get garbled, it could happen, in fact i am quite certain I am right and all other religions are wrong, it was superman who was our saviour and not christ.

 

You cant really prove me worng the same way i cant prove you wrong, unless god has spoken to you directly. But hey, god is all forgiving, so even if i am wrong, i am in no jepardy of being punished for it, according to the rules god will forgive me if i repend on my death bed, so i got some time to be convinced. Well even if i dont repent chances are i will still get in too whatever VIP after life club that is waiting.

 

A life time.. geez, i would bash the chruch so much if they just spend a life time cleaning up their shit, their track record for depraved behaviour just keeps growning. I know the catholic church is the oldest Man Boy club but come on, lets at least pretend they dont condone rampant pedophila, instead of just shuffling their rapist.... i mean priests from church to church, while claiming to be the sheppards of men.

 

So you simply don't care about truth as such?

 

You are asking me for fact, proof and truth, are we still talking about religion the one and only thing in this world governed 100% on the currancy known as faith, Which is the direct absence of proof, fact and truth?

 

Correct me if i am wrong.

 

The only needed truth is, you can througha  dart into an historical book and you can find the chatholic church or whatever diety happens to be in control at the time doing some attrocity in the name of god, and never god him self showing him self too give a pat on teh back to his loyal subjects.

Had you read the thread, I already corrected you.

That's not what the word faith means. The word we translate as "faith" in the bible is the Greek word pistis, which means, to be convinced by the evidence. It doesn't mean what you think it does.

I am convinced, by the evidence, that there is a God, that Jesus  is His Son, that He died on the Cross and was resurrected. I do not know this with 'absolute certainty," but I don't know anything with 'absolute certainty." I do, however, feel the evidence FOR this proposition is better than the evidence against it, after years of study.

Why do you keep bringing up the Catholic Church? They have nothing to do with this discussion. I am not a Catholic, and I am not about to defend them. That would be like attacking all athiests by attacking communism. It's a straw man.

 

 

 

1. 1faith (noun)
2. 2faith (transitive verb)
3. article of faith
4. faith healing
5. good faith

Main Entry:
1faith Listen to the pronunciation of 1faith
Pronunciation:
\?f?th\
Function:
noun
Inflected Form(s):
plural faiths Listen to the pronunciation of faiths \?f?ths, sometimes ?f?thz\
Etymology:
Middle English feith, from Anglo-French feid, fei, from Latin fides; akin to Latin fidere to trust — more at bide
Date:
13th century

1 a: allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1): fidelity to one's promises (2): sincerity of intentions2 a (1): belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2): belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2): complete trust3: something that is believed especially with strong conviction ; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>
synonyms see belief
— on faith
: without question <took everything he said on faith>
Learn more about "faith" and related topics at Britannica.com
See a map of "faith" in the Visual Thesaurus
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"faith." Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary. 2008.

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Retrieved December 2, 2008, from http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith
 

There's my dictionary, wheres yours?

 

I will take evidence however, if you can prove to me Jesus was alive i will at a minimum, apologize for saying he doesnt exist, i will however call him an asshole for not keeping his flock in check. I say catholic church because that happens to be the religon of choice in america, but i pretty much condemned every religion, so dont worry i didnt leave yours out.

 

Ps.. you corrected me? I am begining to remember why i have you blocked.

Jesus is in World History books guy, so you can start your apology now.
 

Originally posted by MarleVVLL

Just for fun, the Christian and Jewish faith would both be rendered useless if the first few chapters of Genesis was not literal. That does not mean that the first few chapters were 100% chronological, but if Adam really did not exist then the entire premise of the Abrahamic covenant > Christ is a man made supertistion. The entire Christian faith rests upon the Abrahamic convenant which stemmed from Adam. Jesus has to be a literal decendant of a literal Adam for Christianity to work. There is much to say on such a topic, mainly regarding redemption and the narritive of such an epic drama, but I'll leave it there for now as I am running late for class.

Blessings and please excuse my spelling errors! :)

Well the entire section is so obviously metaphorical that I really don't know what to say to this.  Even ignoring the wealth of real world evidence, the first and second chapters of Genesis obviously disagree. 

There was a common ancestor for all humans at some point in the past, probably 9-12k years ago, so I guess you could call him Adam.  Though he was hardly the 'first' human. 

 It's funny,  we muslims believe he was prophesised in there. anyway on the matter of the existent of god:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2s14T6x5AM

and the buddha one:
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88TvfjBIOpk&feature=related

Originally posted by Sharajat

Well the entire section is so obviously metaphorical that I really don't know what to say to this.  Even ignoring the wealth of real world evidence, the first and second chapters of Genesis obviously disagree. 

There was a common ancestor for all humans at some point in the past, probably 9-12k years ago, so I guess you could call him Adam.  Though he was hardly the 'first' human. 

I don't have time to write a great apologetic since it is past my bedtime, but I'll try to comment accordingly.

The book of Genesis was written and meant to be understood as a literal narritve. That is basic hermanutics. The reason people have a check about the first and second chapters is because they think that chapter 1 and chapter 2 must be chronologically correct, when that is not the case. The first chapter is an overview of the creation process, and the 2nd chapter is a narrowing in of the start of the narritive of redemptive history; which is why it focuses so much on Adam, Eve and sin, etc.

And, again, Adam must, no MUST, wait - MUST have been a literal human for Christianity and before then, Judiasm to function properly. Basically, if Adam didn't literally exist, then the punishment for my sins has not been paid for and I will burn in Hell forever. That is how big of an issue this is.

Blessings,

Originally posted by MarleVVLL

Originally posted by Sharajat

Well the entire section is so obviously metaphorical that I really don't know what to say to this.  Even ignoring the wealth of real world evidence, the first and second chapters of Genesis obviously disagree. 

There was a common ancestor for all humans at some point in the past, probably 9-12k years ago, so I guess you could call him Adam.  Though he was hardly the 'first' human. 

 

I don't have time to write a great apologetic since it is past my bedtime, but I'll try to comment accordingly.

The book of Genesis was written and meant to be understood as a literal narritve. That is basic hermanutics. The reason people have a check about the first and second chapters is because they think that chapter 1 and chapter 2 must be chronologically correct, when that is not the case. The first chapter is an overview of the creation process, and the 2nd chapter is a narrowing in of the start of the narritive of redemptive history; which is why it focuses so much on Adam, Eve and sin, etc.

And, again, Adam must, no MUST, wait - MUST have been a literal human for Christianity and before then, Judiasm to function properly. Basically, if Adam didn't literally exist, then the punishment for my sins has not been paid for and I will burn in Hell forever. That is how big of an issue this is.

Blessings,

This is truth...to say nothing of the Hebrew language...which also further proves this point.

Genesis (Bereishith) was the truncated history of the Hebrews told around campfires, concluding with Joseph. Moshe's story does not start till Exodus (Shemoth) about 1200bc.

...
btw MarleVVLL, christianity is NOT about "following Christ" it is about replacing Christ's teachings with saul's dogma, the hijacking of the Jew religion and reliance on a gentile fabricated and largely anonymous nt (new testament)... from the intentional misnaming Christ as jesus to the misrepresenting the dogma of saul as bona fide teachings of Christ.

Throughout Galatians, I & II Corinthians and Philippians epistles saul tries to defend his "ministry to the gentiles" against the officials Disciple James and the Jerusalem group sent after him condemning saul as misrepresenting Christ's teachings.

i have specifics i can email you if you would like to research further.

...
ps Sharajat
The last major ice age was about 19K yrs ago/ Pleistocene epoch, homo sapiens (cro-magnon) go back at least 200K yrs and before them there were HS Neandertal, H. Erectus, H. Ergaster, H. Georgicus, and H. Habilis 2 million years ago into the Pliocene epoch.