Originally posted by deathshroud

well thats were i cant understand why there is a dislike of the dev team. Mainly because since beta i have not had any problems with them at all other than them being a small company and all the usual gripes that go with it. for example before i clicked the pre-order option i seen their description of small indie development team and the emphasis on a very bumpy road to release.

Everything is relative. When I read bumpy, I expected somewhat unstable, but playable game. Not completely empty beta where all you could do is run around and hit things (block A). Same goes for current product, I think that a year is more then enough to get your stuff straight. Then again, as said, "bumpy" is a very relative term, I guess.

After that i knew what sort of ride i was in for before i hit the pre-order button, i knew what features would be in at release becasue they listed them and all but tindrem (with some extras) got released.

True, but you see, there is a twist to that. When I buy a car for a price of a prosche, I expect the car quality to be relative to that price, not to a budget volvo. If they charge as much (was even more at start) as AAA title, I expect the features they promised to be fully developed and functional, not stripped down to their bare core and bugged.

If I say "Character progression feature", you would probably think of levels, talents, perks, gear, attribute points, all in one package and you would be right to do so, considering your (I assume) experince with other MMO titles. However I think you would be pissed if all you got was exp grind and a level number to follow that. That's exactly what SV did. A simple feature such as Territory control can be as much as days and days of gameplay or just a change of a tag on the house.

 SV have made a few bad decisions in the past, but as a first time developer with a low amount of funds its understandable. You all might think the small indie company with no money argument has been overused, but it is the truth. Thats what they are and still are. Trying to ignore that statement wont make it go away.

Having no money is no excuse for bad design decisions and trial and error approach to developing, turning your customers into labrats.

Apart from that, what annoys me most are all the tricks SV uses to stay afloat. Sure, one is required to bite in and do everything one can, but to go nazi modding on forum in order to pretend everything is alright to new customers (who do you think ordered it?), or ignore the community suggestions and continue releasing broken features instead of focusing on the core.. The list can go on, all the small stuff together contribute to SV leaving a really bad taste in the mouth, and I wish for them to not become an successful example for others to point fingers to and say "If they got away with it, so can we!".

Then again, each one to their own. I can understand not everyone sharing my opinion about the company.

Originally posted by Toferio

Originally posted by deathshroud

well thats were i cant understand why there is a dislike of the dev team. Mainly because since beta i have not had any problems with them at all other than them being a small company and all the usual gripes that go with it. for example before i clicked the pre-order option i seen their description of small indie development team and the emphasis on a very bumpy road to release.

Everything is relative. When I read bumpy, I expected somewhat unstable, but playable game. Not completely empty beta where all you could do is run around and hit things (block A). Same goes for current product, I think that a year is more then enough to get your stuff straight. Then again, as said, "bumpy" is a very relative term, I guess.

After that i knew what sort of ride i was in for before i hit the pre-order button, i knew what features would be in at release becasue they listed them and all but tindrem (with some extras) got released.

True, but you see, there is a twist to that. When I buy a car for a price of a prosche, I expect the car quality to be relative to that price, not to a budget volvo. If they charge as much (was even more at start) as AAA title, I expect the features they promised to be fully developed and functional, not stripped down to their bare core and bugged.

If I say "Character progression feature", you would probably think of levels, talents, perks, gear, attribute points, all in one package and you would be right to do so, considering your (I assume) experince with other MMO titles. However I think you would be pissed if all you got was exp grind and a level number to follow that. That's exactly what SV did. A simple feature such as Territory control can be as much as days and days of gameplay or just a change of a tag on the house.

 SV have made a few bad decisions in the past, but as a first time developer with a low amount of funds its understandable. You all might think the small indie company with no money argument has been overused, but it is the truth. Thats what they are and still are. Trying to ignore that statement wont make it go away.

Having no money is no excuse for bad design decisions and trial and error approach to developing, turning your customers into labrats.

Apart from that, what annoys me most are all the tricks SV uses to stay afloat. Sure, one is required to bite in and do everything one can, but to go nazi modding on forum in order to pretend everything is alright to new customers (who do you think ordered it?), or ignore the community suggestions and continue releasing broken features instead of focusing on the core.. The list can go on, all the small stuff together contribute to SV leaving a really bad taste in the mouth, and I wish for them to not become an successful example for others to point fingers to and say "If they got away with it, so can we!".

Then again, each one to their own. I can understand not everyone sharing my opinion about the company.

Very well put. You sum it up quite well.

I would also add the complete inability to take responsibility for their problems. The SV "blame game" is unprecidented. Nothing is ever their fault- Hell, the customers are even blamed and accused of being "carebear" or "wow kiddies" if they leave the game angry because there is no sandbox here, game is nearly unplayable, there are no real goals and its a PVP deathmatch.

When will we get a real sandbox game? If this is the spiritual succesor to UO than I am the King of England.

Originally posted by Picklebeast

Originally posted by Toferio

Originally posted by deathshroud

well thats were i cant understand why there is a dislike of the dev team. Mainly because since beta i have not had any problems with them at all other than them being a small company and all the usual gripes that go with it. for example before i clicked the pre-order option i seen their description of small indie development team and the emphasis on a very bumpy road to release.

Everything is relative. When I read bumpy, I expected somewhat unstable, but playable game. Not completely empty beta where all you could do is run around and hit things (block A). Same goes for current product, I think that a year is more then enough to get your stuff straight. Then again, as said, "bumpy" is a very relative term, I guess.

After that i knew what sort of ride i was in for before i hit the pre-order button, i knew what features would be in at release becasue they listed them and all but tindrem (with some extras) got released.

True, but you see, there is a twist to that. When I buy a car for a price of a prosche, I expect the car quality to be relative to that price, not to a budget volvo. If they charge as much (was even more at start) as AAA title, I expect the features they promised to be fully developed and functional, not stripped down to their bare core and bugged.

If I say "Character progression feature", you would probably think of levels, talents, perks, gear, attribute points, all in one package and you would be right to do so, considering your (I assume) experince with other MMO titles. However I think you would be pissed if all you got was exp grind and a level number to follow that. That's exactly what SV did. A simple feature such as Territory control can be as much as days and days of gameplay or just a change of a tag on the house.

 SV have made a few bad decisions in the past, but as a first time developer with a low amount of funds its understandable. You all might think the small indie company with no money argument has been overused, but it is the truth. Thats what they are and still are. Trying to ignore that statement wont make it go away.

Having no money is no excuse for bad design decisions and trial and error approach to developing, turning your customers into labrats.

Apart from that, what annoys me most are all the tricks SV uses to stay afloat. Sure, one is required to bite in and do everything one can, but to go nazi modding on forum in order to pretend everything is alright to new customers (who do you think ordered it?), or ignore the community suggestions and continue releasing broken features instead of focusing on the core.. The list can go on, all the small stuff together contribute to SV leaving a really bad taste in the mouth, and I wish for them to not become an successful example for others to point fingers to and say "If they got away with it, so can we!".

Then again, each one to their own. I can understand not everyone sharing my opinion about the company.

Very well put. You sum it up quite well.

 

I would also add the complete inability to take responsibility for their problems. The SV "blame game" is unprecidented. Nothing is ever their fault- Hell, the customers are even blamed and accused of being "carebear" or "wow kiddies" if they leave the game angry because there is no sandbox here, game is nearly unplayable, there are no real goals and its a PVP deathmatch.

 

When will we get a real sandbox game? If this is the spiritual succesor to UO than I am the King of England.

Well at least there giving it a shot. You guys seem to know all the insid goss and what not so you must be able to tell us the real story because I doubt it is  not as black a white as it looks.

Maybe you guys are the local shop assistances or maybe your ibm programmers I dont know.

I understand these are your views but it sounds like to me you guys know how to do it better.

So the real question is could you do it better?

This dude makes way too much sense. 

Ioudas Junior Member   Join Date: May 2009 Location: Athens Greece Rep Power: 3	Mauzi even though i m watching your posts carefully and i found a lot of them constructive i totally agree with your points even in this last post but common sense -mine at least imposes not to pay attention by feeding the troll in threads like that. I m an old gamer but tbh i m not a forum person so i wasnt aware of the existance of that MMORPG site and now since i m on extended vacation and cant play MO in my laptop i m simply killing my dead hours crawlling on the forums. Thats how it came to my attention through MO official forums the existance of that site. Last few days i had a lot of free time and since movement in MO forums was dead i was reading a lot of new and older posts in those MMORPG forums. I noticed there that a lot of things have being said correctly and words and people where representing MO's bad shape and SV's horrible performance and some other words where of course not true, people where over reacting, talking about the end of the world, the end of MO, the end of SV etc etc. The thing that did way too much impression to me though was that all conversations where under a good, friendly and mature clime and the few times that conversation was out of trails, was when some fanboys where trying to present MO like the paradise for gamers and ofc they didnt stop there but sometimes where insulting, rude and without puting any constructive arguments on the table where throwing arrows towards anyone had a different opinion. Preety much the same deal with MO forums with only difference that in MMORPG forums moderators where not tolerating their insulting behaviour and the lack of respect towards other people and their opinions. Ofc there where also other people like Deathshroud that where trying to express opinions with polite and constructive way and they wherent blatand neither where pretending to be blind and negative on admiting existing problems and the usual trolls that without puting any arguments on the table or provide proofs they where simply stating things most time not even remotely close to reality. Anyway my point is that is pointless trying to put some sense to someone who prolly doesnt even play the game and it would prolly make more difference to point things that are happening in our forums that simply dont make sense are unethical, highly unprofessional and unfortunately are ment to target a supposely 18+ year old audience with average IQ. I m reffering to that: Quote: Originally Posted by Black Opal  If you have an account over there; or are an MMORPG.com community member, I would like to ask you to participate in the Mortal Online section, as it does need help from people who are not as biased. Be Constructive, Be polite. to put it in simple words a company's community manager is patronising his customers to go in another site and get into conflict with unhappy people with the specific company. I simply couldnt believe in my eyes when i saw this. Those words epitomize the total lack of profesionalism of Black Opal and ofc of Sv cause in this pages he represents Sv and thats his job. Personally regarding my contact with SV, Henrik, Black Opal or whoever represents SV inside those forums as a customer that i ve paid for a boxed version+ a digital download +sub for 2 accounts in my attempts to get some answers through this forums concerning the game or the idea behind it to help myself deciding if i m gonna stay and play or i m gonna stop supporting and playing cause the experience with MO and the repeated failures, bugs, lack of content where making me feel frustrated from times to times, i felt that i was totaly ignored and didnt had the apreciation and the respect that company or Henrik or whoever is supposed to have some relationship with the community was obligated to pay to me. And now i see Black Opal a community manager whos hiding behind a nickname to ask for me to go in some gaming forums and backup the game? And to answer to Black Opal to his awfull, childish, amateur, unprofesional and ridiculous suggestion: if you where able to drive the game in a decent state, to iron some gamebreaking bugs that are there forever, if you could pay respect to the ones supporting you all this time, if you where able to deliver new content without breaking the game for several weeks after or if at least you could try to prove yourselfs worthy by showing some improvement instead of circling around the same old crap again, if you where decent in your moderation and if you where more customer friendly concerning feedbacks on development, bug fixing, incoming changes then be sure that you wouldnt have to suggest hidious things like that- seriously even my 9 year old niss as community manager she could be more of a diplomat and wise and cautious on her forum behaviour- cause no one would bother to start a negative marathon against SV and its staff and also be sure that your economy would be in way better shape by itself not only cause you wouldnt have lose thousands of subscribers but the existing subscribers would certainly had bringing friends, other members from gaming guilds/communities to support a healthy and forward moving promissing game. Atm no one dares to suggest the game to people he knows to avoid humiliating himself.

Originally posted by Catchmeifu

 So the real question is could you do it better?

We will probably never know that, since I doubt any of us have a rich dad willing to pool money into such a project. Then again, I am not a big fan of "do it better yourself" argument unless the thing in question is free. If they are getting paid for doing it right, I think it is fair to have some demands or to be able to critisize them.

If that was however a free project, I'd keep my mouth shut. Sure the quality may be lacking of such, but if you didn't pay anything, you can't demand anything either.

Originally posted by Catchmeifu

Originally posted by Picklebeast

Originally posted by Toferio

Originally posted by deathshroud

well thats were i cant understand why there is a dislike of the dev team. Mainly because since beta i have not had any problems with them at all other than them being a small company and all the usual gripes that go with it. for example before i clicked the pre-order option i seen their description of small indie development team and the emphasis on a very bumpy road to release.

Everything is relative. When I read bumpy, I expected somewhat unstable, but playable game. Not completely empty beta where all you could do is run around and hit things (block A). Same goes for current product, I think that a year is more then enough to get your stuff straight. Then again, as said, "bumpy" is a very relative term, I guess.

After that i knew what sort of ride i was in for before i hit the pre-order button, i knew what features would be in at release becasue they listed them and all but tindrem (with some extras) got released.

True, but you see, there is a twist to that. When I buy a car for a price of a prosche, I expect the car quality to be relative to that price, not to a budget volvo. If they charge as much (was even more at start) as AAA title, I expect the features they promised to be fully developed and functional, not stripped down to their bare core and bugged.

If I say "Character progression feature", you would probably think of levels, talents, perks, gear, attribute points, all in one package and you would be right to do so, considering your (I assume) experince with other MMO titles. However I think you would be pissed if all you got was exp grind and a level number to follow that. That's exactly what SV did. A simple feature such as Territory control can be as much as days and days of gameplay or just a change of a tag on the house.

 SV have made a few bad decisions in the past, but as a first time developer with a low amount of funds its understandable. You all might think the small indie company with no money argument has been overused, but it is the truth. Thats what they are and still are. Trying to ignore that statement wont make it go away.

Having no money is no excuse for bad design decisions and trial and error approach to developing, turning your customers into labrats.

Apart from that, what annoys me most are all the tricks SV uses to stay afloat. Sure, one is required to bite in and do everything one can, but to go nazi modding on forum in order to pretend everything is alright to new customers (who do you think ordered it?), or ignore the community suggestions and continue releasing broken features instead of focusing on the core.. The list can go on, all the small stuff together contribute to SV leaving a really bad taste in the mouth, and I wish for them to not become an successful example for others to point fingers to and say "If they got away with it, so can we!".

Then again, each one to their own. I can understand not everyone sharing my opinion about the company.

Very well put. You sum it up quite well.

 

I would also add the complete inability to take responsibility for their problems. The SV "blame game" is unprecidented. Nothing is ever their fault- Hell, the customers are even blamed and accused of being "carebear" or "wow kiddies" if they leave the game angry because there is no sandbox here, game is nearly unplayable, there are no real goals and its a PVP deathmatch.

 

When will we get a real sandbox game? If this is the spiritual succesor to UO than I am the King of England.

Well at least there giving it a shot. You guys seem to know all the insid goss and what not so you must be able to tell us the real story because I doubt it is  not as black a white as it looks.

 

Maybe you guys are the local shop assistances or maybe your ibm programmers I dont know.

 

I understand these are your views but it sounds like to me you guys know how to do it better.

 

So the real question is could you do it better?

I am not a shopkeepers assistance nor an IBM programer- In truth, I am an apprentice Electrician. 

So no, I could not do it better- My programming experience goes about as far as RPG Maxer VX lol. But if I came over and quoted you an estimate to wire a new house you are building and I charged you the same as a Union outfit would charge- Would you not expect quality?

When I am weeks past the deadline, my wiring is a mess and the box is sparking- I will ask "Can you do a better job yourself?". You will certainly understand my logic.

Please dont rage to your friends, report me to ripoffreports.com or generally badmouth my work- 

Originally posted by Toferio

Originally posted by Catchmeifu

 So the real question is could you do it better?

We will probably never know that, since I doubt any of us have a rich dad willing to pool money into such a project. Then again, I am not a big fan of "do it better yourself" argument unless the thing in question is free. If they are getting paid for doing it right, I think it is fair to have some demands or to be able to critisize them.

If that was however a free project, I'd keep my mouth shut. Sure the quality may be lacking of such, but if you didn't pay anything, you can't demand anything either.

I dont see how the free thing matters.

The point is you guys critisize for the sake of critisizing.

And yes they are getting paid but its not like you are forced to pay for it.(that would be different).

But yeah I guess it shows the potential of the game because if it did not most people would not waste there time with a game they do not play or played in the last 3 months. (not directed at anyone)

So the jist I get is we argue and critisize because we can.

Originally posted by Picklebeast

Originally posted by Catchmeifu

Originally posted by Picklebeast

Originally posted by Toferio

Originally posted by deathshroud

well thats were i cant understand why there is a dislike of the dev team. Mainly because since beta i have not had any problems with them at all other than them being a small company and all the usual gripes that go with it. for example before i clicked the pre-order option i seen their description of small indie development team and the emphasis on a very bumpy road to release.

Everything is relative. When I read bumpy, I expected somewhat unstable, but playable game. Not completely empty beta where all you could do is run around and hit things (block A). Same goes for current product, I think that a year is more then enough to get your stuff straight. Then again, as said, "bumpy" is a very relative term, I guess.

After that i knew what sort of ride i was in for before i hit the pre-order button, i knew what features would be in at release becasue they listed them and all but tindrem (with some extras) got released.

True, but you see, there is a twist to that. When I buy a car for a price of a prosche, I expect the car quality to be relative to that price, not to a budget volvo. If they charge as much (was even more at start) as AAA title, I expect the features they promised to be fully developed and functional, not stripped down to their bare core and bugged.

If I say "Character progression feature", you would probably think of levels, talents, perks, gear, attribute points, all in one package and you would be right to do so, considering your (I assume) experince with other MMO titles. However I think you would be pissed if all you got was exp grind and a level number to follow that. That's exactly what SV did. A simple feature such as Territory control can be as much as days and days of gameplay or just a change of a tag on the house.

 SV have made a few bad decisions in the past, but as a first time developer with a low amount of funds its understandable. You all might think the small indie company with no money argument has been overused, but it is the truth. Thats what they are and still are. Trying to ignore that statement wont make it go away.

Having no money is no excuse for bad design decisions and trial and error approach to developing, turning your customers into labrats.

Apart from that, what annoys me most are all the tricks SV uses to stay afloat. Sure, one is required to bite in and do everything one can, but to go nazi modding on forum in order to pretend everything is alright to new customers (who do you think ordered it?), or ignore the community suggestions and continue releasing broken features instead of focusing on the core.. The list can go on, all the small stuff together contribute to SV leaving a really bad taste in the mouth, and I wish for them to not become an successful example for others to point fingers to and say "If they got away with it, so can we!".

Then again, each one to their own. I can understand not everyone sharing my opinion about the company.

Very well put. You sum it up quite well.

 

I would also add the complete inability to take responsibility for their problems. The SV "blame game" is unprecidented. Nothing is ever their fault- Hell, the customers are even blamed and accused of being "carebear" or "wow kiddies" if they leave the game angry because there is no sandbox here, game is nearly unplayable, there are no real goals and its a PVP deathmatch.

 

When will we get a real sandbox game? If this is the spiritual succesor to UO than I am the King of England.

Well at least there giving it a shot. You guys seem to know all the insid goss and what not so you must be able to tell us the real story because I doubt it is  not as black a white as it looks.

 

Maybe you guys are the local shop assistances or maybe your ibm programmers I dont know.

 

I understand these are your views but it sounds like to me you guys know how to do it better.

 

So the real question is could you do it better?

I am not a shopkeepers assistance nor an IBM programer- In truth, I am an apprentice Electrician. 

So no, I could not do it better- My programming experience goes about as far as RPG Maxer VX lol. But if I came over and quoted you an estimate to wire a new house you are building and I charged you the same as a Union outfit would charge- Would you not expect quality?

When I am weeks past the deadline, my wiring is a mess and the box is sparking- I will ask "Can you do a better job yourself?". You will certainly understand my logic.

Please dont rage to your friends, report me to ripoffreports.com or generally badmouth my work- 

The thing is research, if you did the work and it was shit i  just would not go back to you for further work. And at the end of the day the price does not reflect the quality of any product its just a assumption.

I can kind of see what you are trying to say but its like comparing apples and oranges, there kind of the same but not.

And what you expect and get are two different things.

At the end of the day you dont have to keep paying for it and are not forced into it by anyone.

Originally posted by Catchmeifu

Originally posted by Toferio

Originally posted by Catchmeifu

 So the real question is could you do it better?

We will probably never know that, since I doubt any of us have a rich dad willing to pool money into such a project. Then again, I am not a big fan of "do it better yourself" argument unless the thing in question is free. If they are getting paid for doing it right, I think it is fair to have some demands or to be able to critisize them.

If that was however a free project, I'd keep my mouth shut. Sure the quality may be lacking of such, but if you didn't pay anything, you can't demand anything either.

I dont see how the free thing matters.

 

The point is you guys critisize for the sake of critisizing.

 

And yes they are getting paid but its not like you are forced to pay for it.(that would be different).

 

But yeah I guess it shows the potential of the game because if it did not most people would not waste there time with a game they do not play or played in the last 3 months. (not directed at anyone)

 

So the jist I get is we argue and critisize because we can.

That is an unfair statement.  As a customer, I have my rights to express disatisfaction.

Comparison to a comparable priced good is a fair ground for complains.  Why not?  Money is a yardstick to compare things, value or whatever.  Same money charge more or less imply reasonably comparable services.  If I pay for a full fare air ticket and I was swept under the carpet for the entire flight, can you understand my rage?

It is not that they are getting paid, we all are, in our work.  It is the fact that they price themselves higher than most of the AAA titles upon release, and yet deliver a DDD codeset.

If it is free, like a mod, no one can complain.  Many mods are broken, buggy or not well designed, and yet no one can blow his cap over a free mod.

Originally posted by Catchmeifu

Originally posted by Picklebeast

Originally posted by Toferio

Originally posted by deathshroud

well thats were i cant understand why there is a dislike of the dev team. Mainly because since beta i have not had any problems with them at all other than them being a small company and all the usual gripes that go with it. for example before i clicked the pre-order option i seen their description of small indie development team and the emphasis on a very bumpy road to release.

Everything is relative. When I read bumpy, I expected somewhat unstable, but playable game. Not completely empty beta where all you could do is run around and hit things (block A). Same goes for current product, I think that a year is more then enough to get your stuff straight. Then again, as said, "bumpy" is a very relative term, I guess.

After that i knew what sort of ride i was in for before i hit the pre-order button, i knew what features would be in at release becasue they listed them and all but tindrem (with some extras) got released.

True, but you see, there is a twist to that. When I buy a car for a price of a prosche, I expect the car quality to be relative to that price, not to a budget volvo. If they charge as much (was even more at start) as AAA title, I expect the features they promised to be fully developed and functional, not stripped down to their bare core and bugged.

If I say "Character progression feature", you would probably think of levels, talents, perks, gear, attribute points, all in one package and you would be right to do so, considering your (I assume) experince with other MMO titles. However I think you would be pissed if all you got was exp grind and a level number to follow that. That's exactly what SV did. A simple feature such as Territory control can be as much as days and days of gameplay or just a change of a tag on the house.

 SV have made a few bad decisions in the past, but as a first time developer with a low amount of funds its understandable. You all might think the small indie company with no money argument has been overused, but it is the truth. Thats what they are and still are. Trying to ignore that statement wont make it go away.

Having no money is no excuse for bad design decisions and trial and error approach to developing, turning your customers into labrats.

Apart from that, what annoys me most are all the tricks SV uses to stay afloat. Sure, one is required to bite in and do everything one can, but to go nazi modding on forum in order to pretend everything is alright to new customers (who do you think ordered it?), or ignore the community suggestions and continue releasing broken features instead of focusing on the core.. The list can go on, all the small stuff together contribute to SV leaving a really bad taste in the mouth, and I wish for them to not become an successful example for others to point fingers to and say "If they got away with it, so can we!".

Then again, each one to their own. I can understand not everyone sharing my opinion about the company.

Very well put. You sum it up quite well.

 

I would also add the complete inability to take responsibility for their problems. The SV "blame game" is unprecidented. Nothing is ever their fault- Hell, the customers are even blamed and accused of being "carebear" or "wow kiddies" if they leave the game angry because there is no sandbox here, game is nearly unplayable, there are no real goals and its a PVP deathmatch.

 

When will we get a real sandbox game? If this is the spiritual succesor to UO than I am the King of England.

Well at least there giving it a shot. You guys seem to know all the insid goss and what not so you must be able to tell us the real story because I doubt it is  not as black a white as it looks.

 

Maybe you guys are the local shop assistances or maybe your ibm programmers I dont know.

 

I understand these are your views but it sounds like to me you guys know how to do it better.

 

So the real question is could you do it better?

dude just WTF? No I couldn't do it better, but guess what we are the customers, we are no devs we don't have to "be able to do it better", we also have jobs, in which we probably do better than SV tho.

I am an IT Manager for a big lawfirm. I do my job well, and when a friggin server fails and the customers (lawyers in my case) can't work properly cause of that do you really think my response should be "I know it sucks, but would you do it better?"

If ever I'd say that I'd get fired and rightfully, cause guess what, its my job to fix server and network problems so that they can work, THEY PAY ME TO BE GOOD AT IT !

Just like players are customers who pay the people at SV to make a good game and fix bugs so that they can play.

"could you do it better" isn't the real question, its not even a legitimate question, its the lamest , last resort words of a helpless fanboy trying to troll his way through the forums because he ran out of arguments long time ago.

If you wish to debate among us, then at least come with something.

Deathshroud -

You keep complaining that the mods here are somehow in the pocket of those that dislike SV and that you get a disproportionate number of warnings and a single ban.You've made this allegation several times here and also on the MO forums.

You said you have 4 warning and 1 ban in 6 months or so, well check this out  -

The post contained in the lower half is one of the ones I got a ban for. Hardly controversial and didn't attack posters personally, but I still got a ban. It's their forum and their rules so I am not complaining about it, but don't pretend you are being singled out for some kind of punishment because you support SV as it is simply not true.

It is also especially ironic given the logs from the MO IRC. You know which logs I mean ;)

Originally posted by Betel

Deathshroud -

 

You keep complaining that the mods here are somehow in the pocket of those that dislike SV and that you get a disproportionate number of warnings and a single ban.You've made this allegation several times here and also on the MO forums.

 

You said you have 4 warning and 1 ban in 6 months or so, well check this out  -

 

 

The post contained in the lower half is one of the ones I got a ban for. Hardly controversial and didn't attack posters personally, but I still got a ban. It's their forum and their rules so I am not complaining about it, but don't pretend you are being singled out for some kind of punishment because you support SV as it is simply not true.

 

It is also especially ironic given the logs from the MO IRC. You know which logs I mean ;)

The reason Deathshroud never got anything on MO forums is because he is a big time supporter and probably never posted any harsh criticism of the game.

People getting warnings and bans on MO forums are the ones criticising or exposing MO/SV, or simply complaining, regardless of how polite they are.

Just to get back to the original topic:

Balstfromdapast is a single poster on the Mortal Online forums.  If you look over his posting history, he is clearly not a fan of Mortal Online and Starvault. http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/search.php?searchid=2249486 He made a thread discouraging people from posting positive things about MO, basically arguing "If you defend Starvault, people will say nasty things about it"

That is a specious argument. It's not as if critics of MO are mutely standing by, waiting for a positive post to criticize. The critics certainly have the ability to start their own threads and do so frequently.  

 raff01 started this thread to discuss Blastfromdapast (who doen't like SV or MO) recommending people not defend SV.  While he apparently thought it was a worthwhile topic for discussion, I'd have to disagree.

This thread has been mostly off topic since #11

and entirely off-topic since #39

Does anyone have anything more to say relevent to the original topic? If no, let's stick a fork in it, it's done.

P.S. The inclusion of Slapshot's posts was not meant to imply he was leading it off-topic. His are the on-topic posts. I just included them instead of referencing the post number because any moderated posts would throw off the post #.

Originally posted by raff01

Originally posted by Catchmeifu

Originally posted by Picklebeast

Originally posted by Toferio

Originally posted by deathshroud

well thats were i cant understand why there is a dislike of the dev team. Mainly because since beta i have not had any problems with them at all other than them being a small company and all the usual gripes that go with it. for example before i clicked the pre-order option i seen their description of small indie development team and the emphasis on a very bumpy road to release.

Everything is relative. When I read bumpy, I expected somewhat unstable, but playable game. Not completely empty beta where all you could do is run around and hit things (block A). Same goes for current product, I think that a year is more then enough to get your stuff straight. Then again, as said, "bumpy" is a very relative term, I guess.

After that i knew what sort of ride i was in for before i hit the pre-order button, i knew what features would be in at release becasue they listed them and all but tindrem (with some extras) got released.

True, but you see, there is a twist to that. When I buy a car for a price of a prosche, I expect the car quality to be relative to that price, not to a budget volvo. If they charge as much (was even more at start) as AAA title, I expect the features they promised to be fully developed and functional, not stripped down to their bare core and bugged.

If I say "Character progression feature", you would probably think of levels, talents, perks, gear, attribute points, all in one package and you would be right to do so, considering your (I assume) experince with other MMO titles. However I think you would be pissed if all you got was exp grind and a level number to follow that. That's exactly what SV did. A simple feature such as Territory control can be as much as days and days of gameplay or just a change of a tag on the house.

 SV have made a few bad decisions in the past, but as a first time developer with a low amount of funds its understandable. You all might think the small indie company with no money argument has been overused, but it is the truth. Thats what they are and still are. Trying to ignore that statement wont make it go away.

Having no money is no excuse for bad design decisions and trial and error approach to developing, turning your customers into labrats.

Apart from that, what annoys me most are all the tricks SV uses to stay afloat. Sure, one is required to bite in and do everything one can, but to go nazi modding on forum in order to pretend everything is alright to new customers (who do you think ordered it?), or ignore the community suggestions and continue releasing broken features instead of focusing on the core.. The list can go on, all the small stuff together contribute to SV leaving a really bad taste in the mouth, and I wish for them to not become an successful example for others to point fingers to and say "If they got away with it, so can we!".

Then again, each one to their own. I can understand not everyone sharing my opinion about the company.

Very well put. You sum it up quite well.

 

I would also add the complete inability to take responsibility for their problems. The SV "blame game" is unprecidented. Nothing is ever their fault- Hell, the customers are even blamed and accused of being "carebear" or "wow kiddies" if they leave the game angry because there is no sandbox here, game is nearly unplayable, there are no real goals and its a PVP deathmatch.

 

When will we get a real sandbox game? If this is the spiritual succesor to UO than I am the King of England.

Well at least there giving it a shot. You guys seem to know all the insid goss and what not so you must be able to tell us the real story because I doubt it is  not as black a white as it looks.

 

Maybe you guys are the local shop assistances or maybe your ibm programmers I dont know.

 

I understand these are your views but it sounds like to me you guys know how to do it better.

 

So the real question is could you do it better?

dude just WTF? No I couldn't do it better, but guess what we are the customers, we are no devs we don't have to "be able to do it better", we also have jobs, in which we probably do better than SV tho.

I am an IT Manager for a big lawfirm. I do my job well, and when a friggin server fails and the customers (lawyers in my case) can't work properly cause of that do you really think my response should be "I know it sucks, but would you do it better?"

If ever I'd say that I'd get fired and rightfully, cause guess what, its my job to fix server and network problems so that they can work, THEY PAY ME TO BE GOOD AT IT !

Just like players are customers who pay the people at SV to make a good game and fix bugs so that they can play.

"could you do it better" isn't the real question, its not even a legitimate question, its the lamest , last resort words of a helpless fanboy trying to troll his way through the forums because he ran out of arguments long time ago.

If you wish to debate among us, then at least come with something.

Lmao cheers for the insight

Imo questionable actions of a non-factor community member (not to insult anyone, but that's the way it is) are not worthy of 3 pages long discussion.

Originally posted by raff01

 

The reason Deathshroud never got anything on MO forums is because he is a big time supporter and probably never posted any harsh criticism of the game.

People getting warnings and bans on MO forums are the ones criticising or exposing MO/SV, or simply complaining, regardless of how polite they are.

That's not even close to true, he's been very critical on occasion, it's just he voices those criticisms like an adult, and thus he doesn't get moderated for it.  

Originally posted by funkmastaD

That's not even close to true, he's been very critical on occasion, it's just he voices those criticisms like an adult,

Where?

Originally posted by deathshroud 

If you cannot stomach the current state of the game mainly due to bugs and a lack of polish, then i see no reason why you would abosultely detest the game and want it to fail and disapear, afterall its in that niche market you was looking into and had those cool features/concepts you always wanted.

 

 So if I like italian food but find an italian eatery with roaches and poor food quality I should not want to see it closed down?  Your premise is flawed.  You base your statement on the reader looking for cool features and then you imply those features are in the game, they are NOT.  The cool features and concepts you point out that people wanted are not available in the game hence the motivation to see it fail and disappear. 

Sure many of us would have liked to find a game in this niche but the FACT is MO is a poorly developed game with poor content and a lack of leadership.  The game and SV had a great vision that many of us shared, an open world PVP game were our actions would affect the world.  That is NOT what was delivered and that is NOT where the game is moving toward.  You have already stated several easy fixes that are needed and yet after over a YEAR have not been implemented.  Instead, SV adds things that no one asked for and do not move the game towards the vision of the game that continues to flow out of the SV PR machine.

Originally posted by Talonsin

Originally posted by deathshroud 

If you cannot stomach the current state of the game mainly due to bugs and a lack of polish, then i see no reason why you would abosultely detest the game and want it to fail and disapear, afterall its in that niche market you was looking into and had those cool features/concepts you always wanted.

 

 So if I like italian food but find an italian eatery with roaches and poor food quality I should not want to see it closed down?  Your premise is flawed.  You base your statement on the reader looking for cool features and then you imply those features are in the game, they are NOT.  The cool features and concepts you point out that people wanted are not available in the game hence the motivation to see it fail and disappear. 

Sure many of us would have liked to find a game in this niche but the FACT is MO is a poorly developed game with poor content and a lack of leadership.  The game and SV had a great vision that many of us shared, an open world PVP game were our actions would affect the world.  That is NOT what was delivered and that is NOT where the game is moving toward.  You have already stated several easy fixes that are needed and yet after over a YEAR have not been implemented.  Instead, SV adds things that no one asked for and do not move the game towards the vision of the game that continues to flow out of the SV PR machine.

Sums up pretty nicely what has happened with MO. Good job! 

It has been an interesting thread (the one that is linked in the OP).  It is obvious that there is a significant difference of opinion in the community.  Perhaps StarVault and Black Opal will use this as an opportunity to learn something about their community.