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Lepidus 12/06/06 2:09:38 PM
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Novice Member
Joined: 1/07/04 |
In this special debate, we secured two people from polar opposite ends of the industry to debate the ethics of the Secondary Market in the MMORPG industry. Brad McQuaid, the CEO of Sigil and Exec. Producer of Vanguard, has been a vocal opponent of the secondary market throughout his career. McQuaid made his legend in the industry by creating EverQuest. Roger Kipe is a long time MMO-player and for a time owned and operated YourVirtualSeller, a secondary market service. The two square off in this
The full debate is here. |
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Aethios 12/06/06 2:34:31 PM
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Advanced Member
Joined: 7/18/05
I come here |
"He who has the most money wins. You can't stop us, so you might as well give up now." I'll never play an RMT game for this very reason. I just hope the people who participate in this self-destructive behavior realize that by doing so, they are completely ruining the game for themselves, and they will never truly be a part of that game's community. Having skipped the larger part (and the most fun part, for most) of character development is crippling, in most games. If you aren't enjoying the game, then go play something else. MMOs aren't supposed to be about competition, and anyone who believes they are somehow better than the REAL players (because they have more money to spend) has some serious issues. |
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ravex5 12/06/06 2:36:28 PM
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Novice Member
Joined: 3/05/05 |
I am one who doesnt see how the secondary market hurts games. If the secondary market companies are doing things in a legitamate fasion and not exploiting or cheating I dont see any harm in it. If it really did hurt games then MMOs would all fail but they dont because the secondary market is there to help those who dont have the time to put towards getting something. The boat analogy is a very good one. Just because somebody buys a better boat than you built it doesnt take away the pride you have in what you worked towards. Its just many gamers are spoiled brats who would rather everyone have to do EXACTLY what they did to earn what they have but thats not how the world works. Brad says that it takes away the fun of those who earned the items, but on the other hand it adds to the fun of those who bought the stuff. |
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Sowiho 12/06/06 2:56:05 PM
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Novice Member
Joined: 7/12/02 |
The problem with the secundary market is, it will destroy the ingame economic. if a sword was woth 100gp to begin with, then after the second market has done their thing it will soon be 10000gp, because ppl just go out and buy the gp with real money. Suddenly the normal players can't afford this sword because it will be impossibel to earn theese kind of gold in the game. if you look at linage2. the secondary market has completly made this game about bots. who is a bot and who's not. i think its sad that you have to pay for a monthly fee (thats ok) but besides that you have to buy money on the side just to get a decent sword, these games is about companies earning money not players having some good fun.
sorry for the grammer |
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willgar 12/06/06 3:25:53 PM
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Novice Member
Joined: 4/28/04 |
Asked this question before but never an answer - with the majority of high end items in games like WOW etc typically bind-on-pickup in an dungeon requiring 40 people to complete. Or quest based / level based - what do gold buyers do with their ill-gotten gains? Come on, we wont judge you guys / girls - any gold buyers here brave enough to tell us about thier secret shame?
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GPAaron 12/06/06 3:48:14 PM
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Novice Member
Joined: 12/06/06 |
Interesting read, yep yep. The only problem is they picked the wrong guy to interview for the anti-RMT point of view. They should have tapped the CEO of Mythic, Mark Jacobs, instead. Brad's credibility is a little iffy as a champion of anti-RMT these days since he's now working with a company (SOE) that has RMT transactions built into the game itself -- part of the reason for his previously unheard of and now oft-included statement that RMT is OK as long as the game developer is the one making a profit off the transactions. At that point, you're going to lose some of the support you enjoyed previously from the gamers themselves. If your argument is that the cash from the individual transactions is simply going to the wrong company, you're going to be hard-pressed (as the company receiving monthly payments from the gamer anyway) to hear even a very, very small violin playing. You've switched from guardian of game-play and economics to, frankly, whining that the money should be yours, not theirs. Like I said, interesting read. It doesn't change GuildPortal's stance on RMT (we're against it, won't advertise it) by any means, but it's time to take away the anti-RMT crown and hand it to someone that holds their ground more firmly, regardless of who their new publisher is. Mythic after all, has never changed their stance on the topic, and as far as lawsuits concerning RMT go, they've actually won. I do not believe that whether RMT is harmful to the economy of a game and/or the players of the game or not is in any way affected by who gets the money from the individual transactions. It either is or it isn't, regardless of whose pockets are being lined. IMHO, it's harmful, whether the cash goes SOE, Verant, IGE, or anyone else. The practice is the problem, not the routing of the gains. |
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rhagz 12/06/06 4:10:32 PM
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Novice Member
Joined: 4/21/06 |
Well, in a game like WoW, many things aren't bind on pickup. Mounts are purchased from a vendor. The main thing is expendables/consumables. Someone can buy 10,000 gold, head to the auction and buy up every potion in the game. These potions can give hefty advantages in PvE and PvP. Imagine facing off with a team of players who all had Flasks of the Titans etc. all the time. Stacks of Arcanite Bombs to throw. Bags of Free Action Potions to use at will. You would never win unless you had the same resources. |
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De_Valos 12/06/06 4:43:56 PM
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Apprentice Member
Joined: 9/23/05
"Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity; I'm uncertain of the former." ~Einstein |
The issue of real world dollar value being assigned to a virtual item
where by the creator of the virtual item is not in control of
regulating the dollar value is the crux of the issue from my stand
point.
Let me elaborate. Traditional MMORPG's have an EULA which clearly states that all virtual property and intellectual property belongs to the company. These same companys do not assign a dollar value to an item. These items have no dollar value, nor should they. Let's ponder the legal example illustrated where the individual in Korea sued for the return of a lost item. Now let's assume the company in question had lost their entire character and item database, and were unable to restore or recover the data. In the law suit the company was required to re-issue a single item to a single customer. Assuming you no longer have any record of whom owned what item or what character, how could you prove or disprove a claim? Add to that, what would happen if a court determined the company to be legally responsible for the fair market dollar value of said items? So I'll stand by my twisted outlook as to why gaming companys must stick to their guns, and refuse to acknowledge the legitamacy of the secondary market as doing so would lend precidence to allowing a third party entity to establish a fair market value of a virtual item; which in my opinion, is the sole property of the gaming company. The secondary market is setting the stage for a very interesting legal scenario in which the producers of a game could be sued for the value of virtual property that they created. |
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Jade6 12/06/06 4:49:33 PM
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Novice Member
Joined: 7/06/04
MMO session a day keeps doctor at bay. |
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