General Discussion

...seem to actually play a sandbox game? I'm not talking about a standard MMO with sandbox elements like EvE here, or even a single player sandbox influenced game like GTA4, but an actual sandbox game?

There seems to be a lot of call on these boards for this style of gaming, yet a game like A Tale in the Desert is really struggling.

Why is that?

Is it just a case of the noisy minority, much like the hardcore FFA open world PvPers?

I suspect that most of the people asking for a sandbox game couldnt really handle a real one...

Thoughts?

Originally posted by vesavius

Is it just a case of the noisy minority, much like the hardcore FFA open world PvPers?

I think you really hit the nail on the head with that one.

I tried it, i sort of enjoyed it. Didnt think it was worth the monthly fee though. Unless alot has changed in the past year?

Originally posted by vesavius

...seem to actually play a sandbox game? I'm not talking about a standard MMO with sandbox elements like EvE here, or even a single player sandbox influenced game like GTA4, but an actual sandbox game?

There seems to be a lot of call on these boards for this style of gaming, yet a game like A Tale in the Desert is really struggling.

Why is that?

Is it just a case of the noisy minority, much like the hardcore FFA open world PvPers?

I suspect that most of the people asking for a sandbox game couldnt really handle a real one...

Thoughts?

because most if not all aren't very good, or cater to a very very small minority. A Tale in the Desert is a good example of this.

Originally posted by vesavius

...seem to actually play a sandbox game?

When someone asks for a sandbox game on these forums, they most likely mean what you called "a standard MMO with sandbox elements".

Edit - And frankly, I fail to see a distinction between Eve and ATITD that would make one be a "sandbox game" and one be "a standard MMO with sandbox elements." They both give you some freedoms in your and the way you influence the game world, but they both also impose limitations (many of which I would consider to be rather serious limitations).

Mainly due to the fact alot of the sand box games out atm dont have enough good hooks to keep people going.

UO at release was a great sandbox game, that over time lost most of what we pvp sandbox folks enjoyed. EvE is great... but a lot of folks have a hard time getting their heads around the idea of not being able to speed up training. Sure its nice to train offline... but many of us have a hard time planning our toon own 12 months down the road, or care to wait that long to do what we wish.

EvE while great... seems to be more of a waiting game. You plan in advance your area of expertise, and then know the day/minute/second that you can have it... and until then your more or less waiting around. What you do has no affect over that goal (minus implants of course).

Where as a game like UO you can speed up training to as much as your willing to play. Both systems have their perks... but with UO's system, you actually feel like your making progress and working towards a goal, where as with eve (especially for new characters) it feels like your just killing time while you wait for a skill to finish.

Originally posted by pb1285n

Originally posted by vesavius

...seem to actually play a sandbox game? I'm not talking about a standard MMO with sandbox elements like EvE here, or even a single player sandbox influenced game like GTA4, but an actual sandbox game?

There seems to be a lot of call on these boards for this style of gaming, yet a game like A Tale in the Desert is really struggling.

Why is that?

Is it just a case of the noisy minority, much like the hardcore FFA open world PvPers?

I suspect that most of the people asking for a sandbox game couldnt really handle a real one...

Thoughts?

because most if not all aren't very good, or cater to a very very small minority. A Tale in the Desert is a good example of this.

But... if noone plays the ones that are out there, whatever quality they are, why would anyone make any more?

The truth is investors don't look at forum boards, they look at figures right?

I mean, I personally want to see a return to a more old school approach to MMORPGs (seems wierd to be saying 'old school' when we are only a little over 10 years into this hobby...), and if SOE launched a EQ1 classic server I would be all over it. Of course, ideally, I would like to see a spanking new more refined game with the same philosophy, but I certainly would put my money where my mouth is and give it my support by playing it.

Maybe Rannd has touched on a point... maybe the problem is that to charge a sub you have, in the eyes of even the guys who call for 'sandbox', to give content, but the very nature of a true sandbox game is that the players make their own content...

Players do make their own content... however... you have to have in place the ability for players to do so. For instance... personally... I think PvP is a requirement to good player interaction and player driven content. I have two articles on my blog that deal with just that. Here and Here .

You need good guys and bad guys and most importantly in game mechanics that encourage both aspects. You need a strong player driven economy to build interdependencies between all players, and of course resources and critical locations to fight over and control.

Originally posted by vesavius

 

 

But... if noone plays the ones that are out there, whatever quality they are, why would anyone make any more?

The truth is investors don't look at forum boards, they look at figures right?

I mean, I personally want to see a return to a more old school approach to MMORPGs (seems wierd to be saying 'old school' when we are only a little over 10 years into this hobby...), and if SOE launched a EQ1 classic server I would be all over it. Of course, ideally, I would like to see a spanking new more refined game with the same philosophy, but I certainly would put my money where my mouth is and give it my support by playing it.

Maybe Rannd has touched on a point... maybe the problem is that to charge a sub you have, in the eyes of even the guys who call for 'sandbox', to give content, but the very nature of a true sandbox game is that the players make their own content...

 

I'm sure that in the past people have tried to sell some commodity/service, and it didn't go over well, but that didn't stop the next guy from coming along to try to sell the same thing, and having success... though an example escapes me right now.

They did release an EQ1 classic server, more or less.

Are you saying that a sandbox game is one in which ONLY the players make the content? Because I see a sandbox game as a world where players CAN do so, but not one where only they are able to. I see a sandbox game as a box full of sand that all ready has been made into castles by the devs, but which the players can alter to their hearts content. There is content there to begin with, the world is in motion when the players enter it... but from there they control how things progress.