Originally posted by spaceport

SWTOR is a mediocre single player RPG with a monthly fee, nothing but quest grind and boring instanced dungeons.

There is simply nothing else to do, i have never seen an AAA MMO with so little content, 3 warzones, kill 10 quests... where is the massive in this game? where is the PVP? and the crafting? lol... everything is garbage.

All the races look the same, the graphics are subpar at best, the UI sucks, not enough armor models, mirrored classes, terribad talent trees, 1,5 sec cooldown for combat...what a snorefest.

MMORPGs need community driven content like politics, housing, territorial control, PQs, good crafting, open world PVP, sieges... SOMETHING, im not going to pay 15$ a month to reroll and grind the same kill 10 quests again, lol, what was Bioware thinking? 

I agree!  I was looking for an MMORPG to play, and only found a massive online role-playing game that I can play with multiple friends.

No elves, dwarves or anything like a real MMORPG!

Originally posted by bossalinie

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Originally posted by nobottters

Nope, just saying, sometimes its hard to walk away and you catch yourself wasting your life.. in this case, i am telling people, if you are feeling anything like us.. its best to walk away and you'll feel better... I'm glad you can be entertained watching cutscenes, i seriously applaud you, that is not what we want out of a MMO..

 

As stated, i spent 7 years playing with the same group of regulars, its a tough habit to leave, but this had to be done and I dont feel bad anymore.. I on the contrary, more happier than the last 4 weeks of playing this MMO

If you want to hand out cookies however, im all for gratuity!

Good luck in your gaming

 

 

Yeah, because that's all this game is, a series of cutscenes.  I'm happy for you that you are able to walk away, because in all honesty, if all you got out of this game was a series of cutscenes, then it obviously wasn't for you.   Please ignore the fact that it has every bit of the content that every other themepark MMO has, however.  

Yep, no doubt, it has everything most other theme park games have like,

1) Customizable player housing like EQ2, Vanguard and some others. Oh wait, no it doesn't, there's a ship, but not much of a house and limited in customization options.

2)  Arena style combat zones like WOW or GW1.  Oh no, wait, it doesn't have those either, but it does have BG's

3)  Guild housing, banks and bonuses. Oh no, wait, it doesn't have them yet, coming soon _[TM]

4)  Customizable UI like WOW, LotRO, and 1/2 a dozen other titles.  On no, wait, also coming soon.

5) LFG and LFR finders, like WOW, Rift and some others.  OK, they're doing something right here. 

OK, I'll give you that SWTOR has all the basics, and I'm sure they'll implement most of the above in the near future.

But what I'd really like to see is for them to come up with something unique to their title, something reallly different.

 

 

I would say a good 80% of what you mentioned of their games weren't in at launch.

What's even more ironic is that you want SWTOR to include everything from all other games and still be unique.

 

So what if those games didn't include them at launch?  The gaming market isn't static.  Things develop.  This isn't 2004 anymore.  This is 2012.  You should have at least some of these things at launch.

A lot of these things are MMO 101.  Most games can include at least 50% of those things mentioned, yet still do some of those things which are unique.  Guild Wars offered tons of customization in the way you played your toon.  WoW offered a sheer massive amount of content, as well as things like arenas.

Originally posted by iceman00

Originally posted by bossalinie

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Originally posted by nobottters

Nope, just saying, sometimes its hard to walk away and you catch yourself wasting your life.. in this case, i am telling people, if you are feeling anything like us.. its best to walk away and you'll feel better... I'm glad you can be entertained watching cutscenes, i seriously applaud you, that is not what we want out of a MMO..

 

As stated, i spent 7 years playing with the same group of regulars, its a tough habit to leave, but this had to be done and I dont feel bad anymore.. I on the contrary, more happier than the last 4 weeks of playing this MMO

If you want to hand out cookies however, im all for gratuity!

Good luck in your gaming

 

 

Yeah, because that's all this game is, a series of cutscenes.  I'm happy for you that you are able to walk away, because in all honesty, if all you got out of this game was a series of cutscenes, then it obviously wasn't for you.   Please ignore the fact that it has every bit of the content that every other themepark MMO has, however.  

Yep, no doubt, it has everything most other theme park games have like,

1) Customizable player housing like EQ2, Vanguard and some others. Oh wait, no it doesn't, there's a ship, but not much of a house and limited in customization options.

2)  Arena style combat zones like WOW or GW1.  Oh no, wait, it doesn't have those either, but it does have BG's

3)  Guild housing, banks and bonuses. Oh no, wait, it doesn't have them yet, coming soon _[TM]

4)  Customizable UI like WOW, LotRO, and 1/2 a dozen other titles.  On no, wait, also coming soon.

5) LFG and LFR finders, like WOW, Rift and some others.  OK, they're doing something right here. 

OK, I'll give you that SWTOR has all the basics, and I'm sure they'll implement most of the above in the near future.

But what I'd really like to see is for them to come up with something unique to their title, something reallly different.

 

 

I would say a good 80% of what you mentioned of their games weren't in at launch.

What's even more ironic is that you want SWTOR to include everything from all other games and still be unique.

 

So what if those games didn't include them at launch?  The gaming market isn't static.  Things develop.  This isn't 2004 anymore.  This is 2012.  You should have at least some of these things at launch.

A lot of these things are MMO 101.  Most games can include at least 50% of those things mentioned, yet still do some of those things which are unique.  Guild Wars offered tons of customization in the way you played your toon.  WoW offered a sheer massive amount of content, as well as things like arenas.

Just because it's not 50% of the things you wanted doesn't mean they didn't include anything. 

Again, you mention arenas, but it wasn't introduced until after BC. What's worse? How many games had arenas after WoW?

Originally posted by bossalinie

Originally posted by cinos

snip

 

Who cares if they weren't in at launch? They have them now and that is what's important.

ToR is not competing with games made 5+ years ago, it is competing with games available now.

Please get this through your head. The "other games didn't have these things at launch either" argument is just stupid.

So is arguing for these things. They are implementing them. Put up with it or go play something else. It's really not that hard. Most of us have moved on.

That would be why we are all here, on an MMO forum discussing these things. This is the place where MMO vets come to die afterall, so long as it's about MMO's and follows the guidelines set then there shouldn't be a problem with the content they post. Besides if no one was interested in responding then the thread would just die.

Anyway, I couldn't give to hoots about what game they are talking about. However when people like yourself say that since a game made years ago didn't have certain established features that this excuses a brand new game to also lack them....it's just so idiotic I find it hard to believe you are serious.

SWTOR is a single player multiplayer game not an MMO. I can't believe they are charging a sub fee after seeing how instanced and  linear it is.  But of course there will always be people paying it. I started playing Star Trek Online again because it went f2p, and I only play it because the pvp is fun, everything else in the game is instanced repetitive crap. I may come back to swtor if it ever goes f2p (pvp isn;t too bad but its player vs armament) but probably not because GW2 will be out way before then (praying GW2 isn't crap either, at least there is no sub).

Originally posted by cinos

Originally posted by bossalinie

Originally posted by cinos

snip

 

Who cares if they weren't in at launch? They have them now and that is what's important.

ToR is not competing with games made 5+ years ago, it is competing with games available now.

Please get this through your head. The "other games didn't have these things at launch either" argument is just stupid.

So is arguing for these things. They are implementing them. Put up with it or go play something else. It's really not that hard. Most of us have moved on.

That would be why we are all here, on an MMO forum discussing these things. This is the place where MMOvets come to die afterall, so long as it's about MMO's and follows the guidelines set then there shouldn't be a problem with the content they post. If no one was interested then the thread would just die anyway.

Anyway I couldn't give to hoots about what game they are talking about. However when people like yourself say that since a game made years ago didn't have certain established features that this excuses a brand new game to also lack them....it's just so idiotic I find it hard to believe you are serious.

Sorry but I have to disagree with your assessment that new games are somehow obligated to play keep up with the joneses, in this day of instant information many of us would rather a developer make decisions on what is going to make it in at launch and what's not and then actually launching the game,  constantly trying to keep up with every function just to put it in at launch is a good way to never release.

I for one have no problem with the fact that some of these things aren't in at launch especially since they just turn into nice ittle features to look forward to down the line.

Now obviously for those who find the game lacking these things may be important but only time will tell if there are enough people who feel the same as me or not.

Don't waste your time arguing with the fanboi's of SWTOR. Their game is not crap. In 2012 the world should still be flat, it was in 2004. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH, all i hear is stupid comments from people claiming this is so great, but go figure they're not 50???? Do you mean to tell me most people's complaints are at lvl 50? Yes you morons..... Seriously get with the program, my character is a battlemaster as well, and has been one for almost a month now, granted I play more than most of you, but guess what grinding the same 3 wz's is boring as shit. Ow you want to open world pvp??? But but you don't come to MMO's to do that, may i suggest you switch genre's? This is seriously the response to some people's comments. Yes open world pvp is fun, and guess what the benefit is at max pvp lvl or max pvp gear lvl in any game is? That's right killing other players. But in this amazing game that is as good as any other 2004 game, "because you don't need working features at release" world pvp is non existant. 

So before you go ranting on about how great your game is, get 50 please. Then you can have real opinions, until then don't log onto a forum and cry that your game is great when you have no credible source references. I'm not even going to touch the speed haxs in wz's or the bringing in 12 members, raid group que at same time, leave group reque trick. SIgh bad days ahead for mmo's if this is the future of mmorpg's.

Originally posted by spaceport

There is simply nothing else to do, i have never seen an AAA MMO with so little content, 3 warzones, kill 10 quests... where is the massive in this game? where is the PVP? and the crafting? lol... everything is garbage.

 

WoW was a AAA title...

When WoW launched, it had *one* weekly raid. Three battlegrounds. No Arena. No top-level Hard mode dungeons. Almost every quest in the game was a kill 10 quest.

If everyone had held WoW to the standards you mentioned above, it wouldn't have had a single subscriber.

A lot of people seem to be disappointed that a game that has had one month of subscriber feedback doesn't have all the features that, over the course of many years, other MMOs have developed.

It takes time and feedback to make a great MMO. You can't anticipate what your audience will want until they are playing the game. It's a step-by-step process, with hundreds of iterations.

"Crash programs fail because they are based on the assumption that with nine pregnant women, you can get a baby in one month." - Werner Von Braun

The issue isn't that they have less content than WoW, it's that they're charging the same amount of money as WoW for much less of a game.

if you're charging a sub, you need to have as much content as WoW. Simple.

Can't do that? not surprising, so make your game free to play or buy to play. Or, if you insist on charging a sub, don't clone WoW and make your game entirely different.

Only one game is all *that* different (as in, most mechanics are different) from world of warcraft in the standard MMORPG genre and that's still B2P.

Originally posted by hotix

Don't waste your time arguing with the fanboi's of SWTOR. Their game is not crap. In 2012 the world should still be flat, it was in 2004. BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH, all i hear is stupid comments from people claiming this is so great, but go figure they're not 50???? Do you mean to tell me most people's complaints are at lvl 50? Yes you morons..... Seriously get with the program, my character is a battlemaster as well, and has been one for almost a month now, granted I play more than most of you, but guess what grinding the same 3 wz's is boring as shit. Ow you want to open world pvp??? But but you don't come to MMO's to do that, may i suggest you switch genre's? This is seriously the response to some people's comments. Yes open world pvp is fun, and guess what the benefit is at max pvp lvl or max pvp gear lvl in any game is? That's right killing other players. But in this amazing game that is as good as any other 2004 game, "because you don't need working features at release" world pvp is non existant. 

So before you go ranting on about how great your game is, get 50 please. Then you can have real opinions, until then don't log onto a forum and cry that your game is great when you have no credible source references. I'm not even going to touch the speed haxs in wz's or the bringing in 12 members, raid group que at same time, leave group reque trick. SIgh bad days ahead for mmo's if this is the future of mmorpg's.

I last posted a few posts above your last and don't recall many people praising the game as anything great just not as horrible as some other posters are proclaiming it.  and exactly what difference does getting a character to level fifty make in forming an opinion about a game?

Not sure if this was the same topic I brought this up in but I'm curious how or why do people seem to be so eager and willing to play a game they find boring,flawed, etc to max level? That's something like forty hours (unless you are purposely grinding to max level because you are one of the people who says "mmo's don't start until max level").

I think this kind of thinking may be one of the reasons we seem to see so many bamboozling themselves, folks if you don't find a game fun from 1-50 you probably aren't going to enjoy it any more once you reach max level.

And sorry to tell you an opinion is an opinion and mine are as "real" as yours.

Originally posted by ComfyChair

The issue isn't that they have less content than WoW, it's that they're charging the same amount of money as WoW for much less of a game.

 

if you're charging a sub, you need to have as much content as WoW. Simple.

 

Can't do that? not surprising, so make your game free to play or buy to play. Or, if you insist on charging a sub, don't clone WoW and make your game entirely different.

 

Only one game is all *that* different (as in, most mechanics are different) from world of warcraft in the standard MMORPG genre and that's still B2P.

 

But the subscription model is the *most important* feature to copy from WoW in the investors' minds.

MMO's these days don't start til max lvl. 

Originally posted by Eir_S

Hey I know two more people that quit yesterday, they weren't having any fun, and if you're not having fun with a game, I think it is an accomplishment to walk away and not let it take up anymore of your time.  That's how I see it.  On the flip side, you could keep playing it, assuring everyone that you're having a good time and then weeks/months later, confess that you weren't, like I've seen several people do on these forums.

I've not seen too much of this,( people saying they were having fun and lying about it). I quit this week does that mean I didn't have fun in the game? Not at all. It just means I got my fill. I didn't feel i needed a 500 word essay on the subject of why i quit either, I'm not sure why some people do, this isn't Facebook so why give status updates?

Originally posted by hotix

MMO's these days don't start til max lvl. 

I've been hearing that same stupid phrase since the EQ1 days and if that works for you cool but everyone isn't you and I don't think that their opinion is devalued just because of that any more than yours is because it isn't the same as my opinion.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Eir_S

Hey I know two more people that quit yesterday, they weren't having any fun, and if you're not having fun with a game, I think it is an accomplishment to walk away and not let it take up anymore of your time.  That's how I see it.  On the flip side, you could keep playing it, assuring everyone that you're having a good time and then weeks/months later, confess that you weren't, like I've seen several people do on these forums.

I've not seen too much of this,( people saying they were having fun and lying about it). I quit this week does that mean I didn't have fun in the game? Not at all. It just means I got my fill. I didn't feel i needed a 500 word essay on the subject of why i quit either, I'm not sure why some people do, this isn't Facebook so why give status updates?

you're gonna be one of them.

Originally posted by fony

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Eir_S

Hey I know two more people that quit yesterday, they weren't having any fun, and if you're not having fun with a game, I think it is an accomplishment to walk away and not let it take up anymore of your time.  That's how I see it.  On the flip side, you could keep playing it, assuring everyone that you're having a good time and then weeks/months later, confess that you weren't, like I've seen several people do on these forums.

I've not seen too much of this,( people saying they were having fun and lying about it). I quit this week does that mean I didn't have fun in the game? Not at all. It just means I got my fill. I didn't feel i needed a 500 word essay on the subject of why i quit either, I'm not sure why some people do, this isn't Facebook so why give status updates?

you're gonna be one of them.

One of who?

Sorry this game isn't meeting your needs...

I guess I am a minority as my highest character is lvl 30 and I enjoy the game for what it is.  

I'm in no hurry to eat up content and wouldn't have the time if I did. Between job and family I'm basically relegated to weekend only game times now.

I applaud the OP for treating the game like what it is... a bad fit.

Every game either is, or isn't, a fit for the player and we can only hope that the community that develops is a fit for the player.

I genuinely feel that it's the community that makes the game a fit than it is the game itself more often than not.

Best of luck in your next game OP.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Eir_S

Hey I know two more people that quit yesterday, they weren't having any fun, and if you're not having fun with a game, I think it is an accomplishment to walk away and not let it take up anymore of your time.  That's how I see it.  On the flip side, you could keep playing it, assuring everyone that you're having a good time and then weeks/months later, confess that you weren't, like I've seen several people do on these forums.

I've not seen too much of this,( people saying they were having fun and lying about it). I quit this week does that mean I didn't have fun in the game? Not at all. It just means I got my fill. I didn't feel i needed a 500 word essay on the subject of why i quit either, I'm not sure why some people do, this isn't Facebook so why give status updates?

No, that's not quite what I meant.  I meant that some people assured others and themselves that the game was fun but decided later that in retrospect, they weren't enjoying it.  It wasn't that they were lying, it's just that they wanted to support the game but didn't know how to other than saying "This game is better than _____, best MMO ever".  Then when they confessed the truth, it appeared more awkward after all that crowing.  I got my fill too, and it didn't take long.  There's not much sustenance in empty MMO calories.

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Originally posted by Eir_S

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Originally posted by Distopia

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Originally posted by Eir_S

Hey I know two more people that quit yesterday, they weren't having any fun, and if you're not having fun with a game, I think it is an accomplishment to walk away and not let it take up anymore of your time.  That's how I see it.  On the flip side, you could keep playing it, assuring everyone that you're having a good time and then weeks/months later, confess that you weren't, like I've seen several people do on these forums.

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I've not seen too much of this,( people saying they were having fun and lying about it). I quit this week does that mean I didn't have fun in the game? Not at all. It just means I got my fill. I didn't feel i needed a 500 word essay on the subject of why i quit either, I'm not sure why some people do, this isn't Facebook so why give status updates?

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No, that's not quite what I meant.  I meant that some people assured others and themselves that the game was fun but decided later that in retrospect, they weren't enjoying it.  It wasn't that they were lying, it's just that they wanted to support the game but didn't know how to other than saying "This game is better than _____, best MMO ever".  Then when they confessed the truth, it appeared more awkward after all that crowing.  I got my fill too, and it didn't take long.  There's not much sustenance in empty MMO calories.

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I've seen stuff like this as well. I think it reflects the current attitudes towards MMOs more than the MMO itself. There are quite a few people on these forums that bash WoW. Yet if you look at their history, they actually played WoW and admit to enjoying it at some point.

Its weird. People seem to only relate their taste to the present tense. Its like saying I enjoyed Rift for a month, then I got bored and quit. Therefore, Rift IS awful. What happened to that month you enjoyed?

Not to get too off-topic, but I think in WoW's case, the reason previous players of the game bash it is because it changed, and it didn't change to their liking.  I'm one of those people you mentioned - I played WoW and enjoyed it for a long time, but now I can't stand it because I've done everything there is to be done in the game (variety-wise, not specific content).  I think you're right about SWTOR, it came at a time when people are looking for something different, and they got something that was too similar.  I guess that reflects badly on the genre, sure, but I don't think the game is completely innocent either.  They (the SWTOR devs) tried copying a game that either A.) has people that still enjoy it still playing it, or B.) quit because it wasn't their type of game anymore.  That's not a recipe for success IMO.