All Posts by singsofdeath

Thank you Mr. Fortune-Teller, sir, but I think i will wait to make up my own mind about it.

Personally, I don't have any more links to old SWG, nor do I have any desire for BioWare to copy SWG...or WoW or WAR, or Darkfall or whatever. I want them to create their game, their way.

Originally posted by Noggin

KOTOR MMO Should = KOTOR MMO

Excellent Post. QFT!!!! 

Ask those guys over at FFXI who did that 18-hour non-stop bossfight and still couldn't beat him.

Originally posted by coffee

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by Salmonella

I wish Blizzard would create a new franchise rather than milking their existing ones. When was the last time Blizzard created a new franchise? Diablo? Starcraft? They may be great developers and create great sequels, but I think the time is ripe for a new franchise.

 

Blizzard is good at some things. But Innovation is not one of them. Not in the Storyline department and not in the Game-mechanic department. They are great at shaping and polishing existing concepts into a working form.

 

They have made three settings, one of which is vaguely unique, the other two are blatant copies (if done with a twist) of another game-universe. They've been milking those three titles for years now and there's no signs of the fans stopping handing them buck after buck if they just tack new numbers on their titles.

 

So I'm willing to bet that the MMO will be World of Starcraft, or World of Diablo.

 

Of course, they could be doing something totally different and surprise everyone...that'd be a treat, no?

How have they been milking Starcraft and Diablo 3, its been over 10 years since the last starcraft game and 8 years or so since the last Diablo game... they spent years and millions on Starcraft ghost and scrapped it as it was not good enough.. So I dispute the milking comment. 
 

In regards to Wow I think they have sold out a little but hey its all revenue for other games.

Starcraft: Original + Broodwar Expansion + Upcoming follow-up.

Diablo: Original, plus Expansions + one published follow-up + upcoming new Diablo game.

Warcraft: Original, plus expansions + two published follow-ups, plus Expansions + MMO.

Now tell me how you can't see that they are "milking" these games? In the years since they started their IP's other companies of Blizzards magnitude have come up with dozen different settings/games. Blizzard do not do that...so far.

Don't take the milking comment too negatively. Supposedly it all generates money to be spent on a new, great franchise. I only wish they would get off their asses and make something new.

Originally posted by Salmonella

I wish Blizzard would create a new franchise rather than milking their existing ones. When was the last time Blizzard created a new franchise? Diablo? Starcraft? They may be great developers and create great sequels, but I think the time is ripe for a new franchise.

Blizzard is good at some things. But Innovation is not one of them. Not in the Storyline department and not in the Game-mechanic department. They are great at shaping and polishing existing concepts into a working form.

They have made three settings, one of which is vaguely unique, the other two are blatant copies (if done with a twist) of another game-universe. They've been milking those three titles for years now and there's no signs of the fans stopping handing them buck after buck if they just tack new numbers on their titles.

So I'm willing to bet that the MMO will be World of Starcraft, or World of Diablo.

Of course, they could be doing something totally different and surprise everyone...that'd be a treat, no?

Originally posted by EndDream

It probably wont come out for like 3+ years, so you should forget about it for a while and save your sanity...

I'm sure there is Darkfall hate around these parts of the forums, but I'm gonna use it for an example and tell you that I wish I just heard about it instead of 4 years ago...

Forget about games until right before they come out is my point =D

I highly doubt it will take them that long.

Consider this: Development time so far, 3+ years + Using a licensed Engine instead of creating one from the ground up = A likely release 2009 or 2010.

At least that's my theory on it.

Originally posted by kithe

 Hmm I have most likely missed it, I usually do... But where exactly is it stated officially that they new MMO is in fact a Star Wars MMO? 

 

I would love a new Star Wars MMO just for the fact that SOE is lacking the balls to do a forced server migration of SWG so we could get some people to play with. NGE on it's own isn't as bad as everyone is yelling their lungs out to make everyone else think it is. It was poorly implemented which lead to low populated servers. 

 

And about shutting it down not to compete with the new game? How would they do that? New game is Bioware and EA as it seems, old game is SOE and LA. LA won't pull out as it isn't costing them jack and they still have a contract with SOE about just the SWG game. 

 

With todays trends it will most likely be a overhyped game that in the end will make everyone all whiny and squeeky becouse it wasn't "the star wars game WE wanted it to be"... Just look at AoC, War, Lotro... All these games had whining fans just after release becouse THEY didn't like how the game was made. 

 

Well time for bed here, you all have fun contemplating this yet to be fully announced game ^^

You haven#t missed anything. But well...there's several pointers leading people to believe the unveiled game will be Star Wars: The Old Republic. Such as registered trademarks in that name, the cooperation between LA and BioWare, the slip from EA's chief honcho, several alleged claims by ex employees, etc. etc.

It's considered the industry's worst kept secret. And it certianly has been hyped and speculated about long before any facts about it have ever surfaced. Which would fit in nicely with their announcement of revealing.."the most anticipated game...".

I think I want to play it before I make such a bold statement.

Originally posted by Blodpls

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Let me explain a bit more clearly then:

 There is a fundamental difference between EVE Online ganking and the possible ganking in DF. First, someone has pointed out that EVE doesn't actually have Full Loot. This is correct, insofar as that you have insurance and that people can't -take- your most prized posession, your ship, and can never be sure what kind of equipment they get from killing you. They can "only" destroy it. In DF, if you see someone with a better weapon than you, you can attack him and take it from him. (Unless I have missed something and a killed player will not drop -everything-?)

You may say there is no difference, but I see a big difference. There is -MORE- incentive for killing players in DF in my eyes, thus, more problems if the alignment-system does not work.

 

And second, I don't know why you keep ignoring myself saying that possibly the community will regulate it. That is a good possibility, but it is NOT guaranteed. Hence why it is a worry of mine. Understand now?

 

In plain words. Hopefully the community will regulate things. Will it? I don't know. It is a CONCERN of mine, which is what this thread is all about. Thank you.

 

That's not really how I would view this.

I would think it would be more accurate to describe your eve ship as being the same as your DF avatar.  They are both "insured"  but when you die you lose your ship addons, therefore it is exactly the same if not worse in eve as you can get podded and lose actual skills.

Also about the community self regulation, have your ever played AoC?  Free for all pvp and you almost never get ganked, even in the first 2 weeks when it was packed 99% of people would not attack you.  Why would DF be different? It has more deterent for misbehavour than AoC as well.

Hmmm, interesting way to look at it. I suppose one could argue that you get the money for your ship back and thus it is basically the same as an Avatar while the Modules and cargo are your actual equipment. True, didn't think of it that way.

As for AoC. There was no incentive to kill somone else except to kill him. Full Loot adds incentive. So I would suppose there will be a higher chance of ganking going on in DF than in AoC.

Again, I hope and, from what I am getting to know of the community, believe that the community will deal with the gankers in their own way.

P.S.: @GrayGhost. No problem m8! I know how it is to get carried away when you've been dealing with "Trolls" all the time. Again, I wanted to state these questions in a thread of my own so that people can actually discuss them thoroughly and not get sidetracked. So far, I think the discussion is going nicely.

Originally posted by Aragon100

Nice thread.

Multi accounting can be a problem but i think it actually wont be that many that will buy an extra account just so they can avoid the alignement issues. Crafters is what most will make as an extra character as i see it.

There will be hard to distribute the items for starters since you cant put anything on ground. If you dont have your own town it will be problem to share the "good" guys stuff to the "bad" guy.

Last, and this im not 100% sure on but anyway, i doubt you will be able to log in your "bad" guy at same time as you have your "good" guy online. If im right in this then the "bad" guy have to be depend on other players ingame to get resources and the multi accounting reason more or less disappears.

Take what i said last with abit of salt, i searched for quotes on it but havent been able to find any. But only being able to have one character online at same time might remove some of the alignement problems.

Ahh, that's good to hear. While there's still the option to kill the other twink and loot him, this will certainly make things harder on that kind of endeavor.

Thanks!

Originally posted by KhaelSan

1) I am just as worried about the lag vs fps'is gameplay as you are.

2) I dont see this as a problem. Having two account's wont be a big benefit in this regard.

The penalty for being evil is not so much that you can't go shopping - you can do that even if you are evil, just have to do it at one of the outlaw cities - but more that everyone will be hunting you down in order to gain faction points / restore their own alignment.

Is killing "evil" players the only way to restore ones own alignment? Or are there also quests etc.? I must admit I haven't found much about how to restore faction etc.

Thanks for the reply though!

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

 

lol so ignore answers to the specific questions you asked and only respond to the the "Other than that  what are you looking for?".

The thing is we will just have to wait and see. You asked about griefing and lag and how they plan on handling it.

Griefing- Factions will limit the griefing within ones own faction with penalties associated with it and rewards for killing those outside your faction. No auto target and no names floating above your had as well as no auto attack. It is more than feasible to escape or avoid it if you don't want to be griefed or pvp.

Lag- Dynamic Load balancing Server clusters. They will share the work load when a server gets bogged down. Strict polygon count while developing, and lastly they have an auto balancing for the settings so when you start to lag it will automaticaly adjust for you to your desired FPS.

Those are direct answers to your questions. If you want more than that like the rest of us you have to wait. You ask these same questions over and over and I and others answer them relatively the same way over and over thats why I added the what more do you want in the first place. Not the first time you've asked and not the first time you've been answerd. If you want a definet this won't be an issue you wait till beta and or launch like the rest of us. I gave you the mechanic lists they have given us they will help in those areas so again what more do you want? Because having people tell you the same thing over and over can't be all that helpful if your still asking the same questions.

I don't ignore anything. I read your replies and I'm glad you took the time to answer my questions. And yes, I have asked these questions before, but actually, no one has so far taken the time to seriously discuss the issues. All I usually get is "They will handle it".

Also, is it forbidden to start a thread to -discuss- possible problems of a game now? Even if I have asked these questions before in -other- threads, I wanted to get a discussion going. Particularly about these subjects. So far, all I get is answers, for which I am certainly grateful, but no discussion. Like, do you think the game mechanics will stop people from playing cross-continent? Or do you think they will manage to overcome even that? 

The DF Fans create thread after thread to discuss positive aspects of the game. Why can't I have a mixed one. I notice you totally ignored the positive thoughts I posted...and the question I asked wasn't answered either. I guess you didn't read hat far and only saw the "negative" things?

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

 

Again lag is what most fear the most. So far the Devs feel confident with there ability to handle it. The reason I gather it should not be an issue (It still may be so we have to wait and see) is that they have developed DF with lag in mind. There is a strict polygon count that was to be adhered to durring development. The type of server they are using is a Dynamic load balancing server cluster or something like that. It basicily  is a cluster of servers that when in need will share there load with another server within that cluster. Each server has a set area that it maintains when to many players are in that area it shares that load. The actual server that you play on will be one Server cluster. Also the settings will auto adjust when you began to lag to keep your desired frame rate which you can set.

 

As for the Multi accounts and griefing. There being factions helps a lot. Players will be more inclined to kill those that are considerd enemy rather than friend. The world is also extremely large so running into enemy factions is something that can be avoided. Secondly if you see an enemy run and zigzag. There's no lock on , there's no auto attack and there are no names floating above your head so you can in fact hide.  If you get griefed it is pretty much your choice to stand there and be griefed, they have given the means for anyone not wanting to fight to run away and have a really good chance of getting out of the situation.  Stand your ground against 3 people and you are more than likely to die run and you are more than likely to live if you can think on your feat. Telling people they can't grief isn't a sandbox nor FFA PvP. Not allowing people to avoid or escape that situation isn't FFA PvP nor a sandbox.   You have the ability to grief in DarkFall by design and the means to avoid it and escape it by design. There is even a built in deterent against it (Factions) to some extent. Other than that what are you looking for? The only way to stop griefing is to have GM's constantly moniter or add mechanics to stop it and in either case these means have both failed in the past. So far on paper DarkFall has the best method for dealing with it to me. Other games methods not only didn't look good on paper but were proven to flop after implementation.

If people want to grief you there going to in some way or another it happens in any FFA PvP or FFAish PvP game. The absolute only way to stop it is to make PvP consent only and even then it doesn't stop it because they find other ways to grief you.

tl;dr version

But to sum up for griefing - Factions will prevent a lot of it not all of it atleast from your own race or those within that faction. Those that try and grief you anyways, you have means to avoid it or escape it. That to me is more than enough. It allows the freedom on both sides of the fence.

Lag-  With Dynamic Load balancing Server Clusters along with the Strict polygon count that abided by durring development and with the Auto adjusting of the settings Lag shouldn't be an issue. There is a chance it may still be but looking at it from a technical stand point the system seems pretty sound and coverd through several means.

I hope this has helped

*sigh* I highlighted what I am going to reply to.

I do not -want- anything. I told people what I see as a possible problem for DF. As i stated multiple times, there is the chance that things are regulated in the community, I hope for it, but it is not guaranteed, hence, it is a worry. I do not want anything changed or switched or made less hardcore or whatever.

I presented a problem that -may- arise and which will have to be dealt with by the game and the community. Let's hope they manage to overcome the problem!

Originally posted by ste2000

Originally posted by singsofdeath

Originally posted by ste2000

I agree on the performance.
Although I read few interview of devs on how they optimazed the client and servers to deal with lag, I am still not convinced until i see it.

Your second point, have you ever played EvE online?
If you want to understand how full loot doesn't necessarily means griefing and if u want to understand how a sandbox works, then you should play EVE to have an idea.
PvP in those games isn't meaningless like in normal games, and although sandbox games have less restrains on PvP, it has also the least number of griefers too.
I know it is difficult to understand, that's why I suggest  you and all the people worried about full loot and griefing to play a game similar to this one like EvE.

 

 

I have played EVE Online quite a lot, I know how Full Loot works. My worry was not so much the Looting itself. Apart from the fact that there's quite a lot of ganking in EVE. I was merely pointing out how people could slip around the alignment system, thus making the supposedly "hard" life of a bad guy, not so hard at all.

But as I said, it could regulate itself. I did point out that communities sometimes arrange things for themselves. It might work here, who knows.

Sorry I don't get it..............
You played EvE and yet insists in asking how can DFO alignement system make life hard for bad guys?

Same way as EvE.........You can't, it is a sandbox after all, it will be the comunity which will decide what kind of punishment the bad guy will have.
What you call ganking in EvE I call it Pirating, only pirates gank people for fun and to loot, it is their job, and it is accepted by EvE comunity.
Not everyone in EvE gank everyone else at ramdom like it happens in other games.
Pirates are recognised and wanted, they too have a meaning in the world of EvE.

So if you played EvE you shouldn't be worried about the issue of ganking getting out of hand in DFO, because the comunity itself will shape the rules..........

Let me explain a bit more clearly then:

There is a fundamental difference between EVE Online ganking and the possible ganking in DF. First, someone has pointed out that EVE doesn't actually have Full Loot. This is correct, insofar as that you have insurance and that people can't -take- your most prized posession, your ship, and can never be sure what kind of equipment they get from killing you. They can "only" destroy it. In DF, if you see someone with a better weapon than you, you can attack him and take it from him. (Unless I have missed something and a killed player will not drop -everything-?)

You may say there is no difference, but I see a big difference. There is -MORE- incentive for killing players in DF in my eyes, thus, more problems if the alignment-system does not work.

And second, I don't know why you keep ignoring myself saying that possibly the community will regulate it. That is a good possibility, but it is NOT guaranteed. Hence why it is a worry of mine. Understand now?

In plain words. Hopefully the community will regulate things. Will it? I don't know. It is a CONCERN of mine, which is what this thread is all about. Thank you.

Originally posted by ste2000

I agree on the performance.
Although I read few interview of devs on how they optimazed the client and servers to deal with lag, I am still not convinced until i see it.

Your second point, have you ever played EvE online?
If you want to understand how full loot doesn't necessarily means griefing and if u want to understand how a sandbox works, then you should play EVE to have an idea.
PvP in those games isn't meaningless like in normal games, and although sandbox games have less restrains on PvP, it has also the least number of griefers too.
I know it is difficult to understand, that's why I suggest  you and all the people worried about full loot and griefing to play a game similar to this one like EvE.

 

I have played EVE Online quite a lot, I know how Full Loot works. My worry was not so much the Looting itself. Apart from the fact that there's quite a lot of ganking in EVE. I was merely pointing out how people could slip around the alignment system, thus making the supposedly "hard" life of a bad guy, not so hard at all.

But as I said, it could regulate itself. I did point out that communities sometimes arrange things for themselves. It might work here, who knows.

Hey ho everyone. I realize I am probably gonna get flamed to high heavens for this, but since there are few enough people who post about possible problems of this game in a constructive manner, I would like to do that here. So, that being said, here's a list of possible problems I see this game having, my reasons for thinking these problems could exist and last but not least, my favorite thoughts about the game (every post should have a spot of sunshine. ),

1.) Lag (Client and/or Server-Side)

This has been adressed several times but never in a manner that really brings up the thing that I think will be the most problematic issue of this aspect. Now, we all know DF will be FPS Twitch based combat. You swing your weapon, you aim your spells and arrows. No auto-targetting. You have to, as someone put it, time your hits right to hit people where it hurts. While this is not exactly my favorite kind of gameplay, the idea behind it is solid and can be fun, I am sure.

The problem however, is obviously Lag. And you get lag, in any MMO so far. Sometimes small small amounts, sometimes larger amounts. Now, in a game like WoW, WAR, LotRO etc., you can comfortably play the game, even be competitive in PvP with over 300ms, albeit of course, you will lose an edge, but it is not as though you are out of competition. Your hits will most likely still hit the target, your spells will not go askew, your arrows will find their mark etc.

If you get 300ms in Darkfall, I am rather sure you are toast. Swing your weapon, the enemy will never be where you think him to be. Now, I hope the DF Devs can manage the Server-Side lag, causing it to be low at all times, which however, does not say anything about Client-Side lags. Telecommunications provider problems, things like that can lead to lag-spikes and possibly bad connection days. We all know that. This could lead to frustrating experiences in a game like this.

Furthermore, the problem grows a little, if you take competitive PvP into consideration because now, even with low latency, you might have a disadvantage, if your opponent has an even lower one. Say your enemy has a 30ms latency, but you have 90ms. That's -only- 60ms difference but it puts your enemy at an advantage in a FPS based game.

Last but not least, this will be the strongest point against people from different continents mixing it up. I like to play on American Servers from germany, since my friends are there. This leads to a higher latency for me naturally, which would most likely put me out of competition in DF.

If the Dev's have found a way to work around that somehow, then I have yet to read about it, but it is a pressing concern of mine.

2.) Multi-Accounting

A FFA PvP Server with Full Loot. many DF Fans seem to think of this of a holy grail of MMO's and I sure can see how it will create more challenges and more risk in this kind of environment. It also promotes Player-Killing, obviously, and thus opens the gate to so-called Griefers.

It has been said that an Alignment System is in place and that people who repeatedly kill players of their own factions and much weaker players etc. will eventually become outlaws, NPC's no longer talking to them, attacking them etc, which would obviously give them a disadvantage as to not having access to materials, safe places and so on. As nice as that sounds, I still have not heard how the Developers want to prevent people from Multi-Accounting, simply creating a "good" Toon on one with which they make all the NPC-arrangements, shopping etc. and then transfer it to their "evil" toon by themselves.

Please, do not tell me that there are not many people who would possibly buy two subscriptions to DF or who have two computers. There's enough people who do that kind of thing and have done in any game. Be it Buff-Bots or something else, it is being done and I can't see how DF wants to prevent that, thus allowing people to circumvent the alignment system thus making the -hard- life of a "bad" guy not so hard at all.

I'd like to say that this is not a big issue, but it -can- be. Ganking and Griefing are factors which will prevent people from enjoying the game and which will cause some players testing the game and being repeatedly ganked even in cities or safe-zones or by people of their own race to simply not bother anymore.

This is however also something that the Community can regulate, to an extent, by themselves. If this will be the case in DF remains to be s