All Posts by Burntvet

A few more bits from threads on the offical boards, continuing to show things ain't all rosy in SWG over this TCG scam:

Amellie:

This is about the end SWG gameplay effects so please don't lock as the two things are irrepairably linked
in otherwords as long as I don't swear of flame this thread is safe. (Lockproof disclaimer)

Crafters are upset due to V wing. The non TCG playing 3/4 of the playerbase are upset due to exclusive buffs rewards.
And more items coming soonTM to shaft structure traders/engineers too.

When will SOE move away from the loot culture and return to honor the crafting community?
We have AFK looters for RE everywhere as a result of the junkloot. Why not just let resources dictate quality of SEAs etc.
Give the traders back the power and bring community back to SWG.

I know you enjoy the 1.99 each time a sap tries for these loot cards but we are sick of being milked

Our subscription should be enough. Stop the TCG loot scam. Don't make gamblers out of teenagers.
Shame on you SOE for this and for shunning the crafting community.

pqm2b2:

:Well said. The TCG is nothing better than a pure money scam, no better than the Credit farmers we have been plagued with ingame.

I have a combat toon and a Crafter ShipWright and I am personally disgusted that this V-wing is a TCG item.

I have a mind to cancel my 2 accounts as I am not putting up with this kind of nonsense.

Yeh and thats right a paying customer since Oct 2003.......!

Vincerkaden:

SOE is testing its players and may be discovering that "we" are willing to pay for content beyond what our subscription fee gets us.

SOE has us well-conditioned and right where they want us. Here's what's happening.

1. Players purchase TCG cards to acquire the desired content.
2. Clearly the most desirable is more rare. (How many bodyguard jackets do YOU have?)
3. Players urge SOE to stop introducing content via the TCG; mostly because "We don't want the TCG"
4. SOE obliges and begins offering loot from the SOE store, rather then from (in addition to?) the TCG packs
5. SOE has then successfully conditioned us into accepting a "pay for content" policy, and we almost asked for it. We're doing it now through the illusion of the TCG.

And that's when things go from bad to worse. SOE has proven they have no real grasp of "cause and effect" (like the forthcoming server merges that we're not supposed to be able to guess about). The day we can only get new content by paying extra for it is the day I cancel. I don't think I'll be the only one.

Landlord40:

The problem is not that they give us stuff in the TCG, its that the stuff should be crafted. A count dooku bust should be crafted by structures, a vehicle should be crafted by engineers, there should be absolutely no buffs awarded "gorax ear".

They keep bringing down the magical creation path, and that is exactly the reason we dont play the other games.

Plenty more pop up, but the Mods delete these threads very quickly over there....

People in my old, now destroyed SWG guild lost more than $3000 collectively in prepaid play time (which SOE refused to refund) when the NGE hit and the game was gutted (it was a reasonably sized guild for the times).

Do you think that any of them will EVER be back or pay SOE another dime?

Multiply that by tens of thousands and know why SWG will never make any sort of comeback.

SOE did it to themselves.

Originally posted by Antarious

Originally posted by winter

 Ummm I'd say it didn't take a Vet to know this. All your good ol boy backslapping is just making you look silly. If you want to prove that SWG Vets are somehow better then everyone else do something worthwhile like cure cancer or something already instead of parading around like some kinda self important asshat. 

 

Well I don't think anyone could be much more upset about what happened to SWG than *I* am...

But imho you pretty much hit the target dead on.

I mean just the way its presented... SWG Vets aka people who had their game ruined.. but also as if its unique to SWG or that SOE randomly decided to come into the remains of SWG for a money grab.

Forget the fact that the TCG was implemented in EQ1 and EQ2 before it was added to SWG.  Forget the fact it was implemented in the exact same manner.. with the exact same issues.

It obviously would take a SWG "vet" to have the future seeing powers to know this was coming or what would happen.  Because no one that plays EQ1 and/or EQ2 would already know.

Right down to the claims about moving resources from SWG to create this..

I mean that Denver studio that was set up a couple years ago to do TCG's exclusively... was just a myth.

I honestly don't think I can even relate to people who call themselves "swg vets" anymore.. or at least many of them.. even tho I played the game and miss it a lot.. because now it seems to enter a realm that requires medication to leave..

Gee, hateful much?

If people that played EQ/EQ2 had all this stuff happen to them, why didn't they say anything? Why didn't they call SOE on it? Why didn't they start such a ruckus about this issue, that it caused public scrutiny to be put on SOE and its business practices? Why did it fall on us "vets" to call SOE on it and start writing State lottery commisions and consumer affairs agencies over this (sent 4 myself, and got 3 answers so far)? If EQ/EQ2 players did, would SOE have even bothered doing it to SWG?

Who is an SWG "Vet"? One, primarily at this point, who used to play SWG and got the business end of SOE's shady business practices. We also aren't going to be quiet about our experiences. By speaking out, if we cause other game companies to not act as SOE has, then that is better for everyone.

Did anyone ever say we were better than anyone or thought we were better than anyone? Nope. But we aren't believing a word SOE says or that they do anything for any reason other than money. Not to put out a better product, not to offer something good to a customer.  More money for the next quarter is all SOE cares about, and NO ONE should ever forget that.

I can't think of any other company to pull even 1/10th the shady things SOE has, and if by us calling them on it, some other company will put out a better product or see what happens to a company that takes it customers for granted, then that's fine.

The TCG is just the latest in a long line of SOE scams that were intended to benefit SOE and not the customer.

If EQ/EQ2 players got this same deal, shame on them for not speaking up.

Winnings in a raffle or lottery need not be cash and many times aren't.

Cars, vacations, jewelry and every other kind of good are given out as prizes.

Under most statutes, it only need be "something of value." Could be a service, could be anything.

Since some of these loot cards are selling for hundreds of dollars on 3rd party sites, the "marketplace" has determined that these things have value.

Originally posted by Zinzan

Originally posted by Agricola1

From what I've read in this thread it seems obvious to me that SWG is now an open alpha test for the Agency ...... and you're paying a subscription for it too! The people left playing SWG have taken so much BS in the past, like a wife that's been abused over several years by a violent husband, what difference does another beating make?

There are so few left playing SWG that Smedley is just using it as a testing ground for future "enterprises" now. He's crazy about micro transactions but realizes that western audiences dislike this method of payment as it is so easily abused by both unscrupolous players and companies alike. So perhaps this is his method of weening the western playerbase onto the micro transaction system he's been trying so hard to sell us for years?

Obraik you defend your beligerent partner eloquently however, you're paying money not for an item, but for the hope of getting an item. The more times you purchase that hope, the higher your chances increase in getting it. You don't have to pay, you can get these packs for free ingame, but isn't that just a method of getting your hopes up so that Smedley can draw you into his scam?

I understand some refuse to buy these packs, but isn't it unfair to put this in a game with children, and disguise it as a fun side game to play for free inorder to lure them to the cash shop? Also let's be honest even SOE believes the mental age of the NGE target audience to be lower than your average MMO gamer "there was too much reading", "They want more kill/loot/repeat".

Also all the time you're paying SOE to run a tiny Dev team of amatuers to patch in old content as new and they have the front to ask you to pay more money in the hope of getting it!

SWG is a dying animal and Smed is now testing it in his lab of evil fleecing scams in preperation for the Agency. Any crazy idea that normally would get an executive or lead developer fired for suggesting is now tested out on the remenants of SWG. There is one question I'd like to ask Obraik and those that defend this method of trying to squeeze blood from a stone, is this TGC "Starwarsy"? I mean let's be serious, Chewbacca wastes a stormtrooper and Han shouts "Chewie check to see if he has any playing cards in his belt!". Then back on the Falcon they can't jump to Hyperspace and Liea shouts "Han give me the pack of cards!", opens them up and Han screams "Yeeee hhhhaaaa we just got a new hyperdrive, this could really save our necks!". Or how about when they were checking out Anekin "What are you doing?", "I'm checking your blood for Micro transactions", "Micro transactions? What are they?", "They are what give Jedi the power of the force, buffs and sexy pod racers!".

The previous statment is only my own opinion and is in now way to be taken as fact,

Agricola.

 

TCG's are very commonplace and have been for years, christ I remember football TCG's from 30 years ago and i know there were predecessors of this around in the 1950's. It's nothing new, companies have been doing it for decades in one form or another. Sure they are aimed at kids, they have always been aimed at kids, but so are gobstoppers and ice-cream, whats the problem?

Get off your high-horse and open your eyes to the world around you, it's been that way for years and it will always be that way, QQing at SoE for doing what others already do is ludicrous. There is obviously a market for it, if there wasn't then no-one would pay. Basic supply and demand economics for gods sake.

You don't like it or disagree with the ethics, then protest by not buying into it. Thats all you can do.

Well, that's fine and all, and I am not disagreeing. But so far, the state lottery commisions of 7 US states have disageed. That is why TCG card tournament entrants are not allow from various US states with more on the way. Why? Because you pay an entry fee, and "play" for prizes. Were this Texas Holdem, no one would argue it is gambling. The game is different, in this case, but not the mechanics, behind hiding behind the figleaf of a TCG and virtual property.

Also why non-US residents can not participate. SOE's lawyers told them not to allow it.

Originally posted by BarCrow

Originally posted by Burntvet

Originally posted by BarCrow

I don't understand why some people are so vehemently irate that others CHOOSE to spend money on buying the TCG packs and may obtain an item others worked for in game. Does that really affect one's enjoyment of their gaming accomplishments. Some people climb mountains and others use money to fly a copter to the top. So does the climber get up there and stomp their feet and cry havoc because he had to work for the experience?....I can understand annoyment but not the attitude of game-ruination that seems evident by some. And on the "underhandedness" and "greed" of SOE....people choose to pay for the cards on top of monthly sub. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head.

 

There are several reasons:

1.  It is a gambling or gambling like activity aimed at children and young adults through a video game.

.>>>>...>>although not through video games(except maybe MtG)....so are are trading cards/card games where special cards..i.e rookie/foil/hologram/special attack...are involved..I am also willing to bet...(doh..gambling again).. that most of the SWG player base..at this time ..are not likely within the age bracket normally considered as "child".

2.  SOE has legally instituted a game mechanic through which players/sites can buy and sell credits legally, so long as SOE is pocketing the real cash.  SOE maintains that credit selling is against hte terms of the EULA, except in the case of them doing it themselves through a game mechanic they create to allow it.

>>>>>Their perogative..of course its in the EULA that nobody else should be able to make money off of their game...it's THEIR GAME. do you think Lucas would just allow any Joe the video game developer to make money off an unlicensed starwars game...well SOE has that license..paid for it..a lot i imagine..and they feel the same way.

3.  The only way to get this "new content" (except for an exceedingly small chance) is by paying more money, in a game that has subscription fee equal to the highest in the industry

.>>>> again...Their game...nobody's holding a gun to anyone's head. As far as fees being the highest in the industry...they are on par or average with most sub based mmos...I mean...there is free(of course most with RMT)...and around $15.00 a month(some with RMT)..with a just a few in between. Not so much the highest in industry for monthly...more like the standard.

4.  SWG is still a fundamentally flawed and broken game, and instead of fixing some of the obviously broken things, they are spending all kinds of money/time on the TCG sideshow

.>>>>i Agree...core game should be fixed..so don't buy cards  and/or cancel the sub unless this is rectified.

5.  SOE has a history of being shortsighted and changing the game to benifit themselves and not the game or playerbase...

>>>>>>true...they don't listen to player base, for the most part,...this is nothing new. If people aren't aware of this by now...I don't know what to say. I guess they believe if all remaining subscribers are willing to dole out $15 a month for a broken game...they'll pay more for some hassle-free..chance based perks...it's business. Know how to take a stab at greed hungry business practices?..stop feeding the beast.

 

How's that for a start?

>>>>pretty good.

 

  Not trying to be a smart-ass..just the way I see things...other than the above comments..I like the game..played til recently...just never bothered with the TCG.

That is your opinion, and that's fine, but you asked (i.e. I don't understand why...) why some people are irate over the TCG and its implementation and various aspects.

That is what I provided, based on numerous threads, here, the official boards, and other places. Nothing in the way of hating on anyone or you or SOE. This is what people are thinking, in a general way, whether you agree or not.

I am sure SOE does not like all the negative hype they are getting over this, but based on their past actions, they probably don't care....

Originally posted by BarCrow

I don't understand why some people are so vehemently irate that others CHOOSE to spend money on buying the TCG packs and may obtain an item others worked for in game. Does that really affect one's enjoyment of their gaming accomplishments. Some people climb mountains and others use money to fly a copter to the top. So does the climber get up there and stomp their feet and cry havoc because he had to work for the experience?....I can understand annoyment but not the attitude of game-ruination that seems evident by some. And on the "underhandedness" and "greed" of SOE....people choose to pay for the cards on top of monthly sub. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head.

There are several reasons:

1.  It is a gambling or gambling like activity aimed at children and young adults through a video game.

2.  SOE has legally instituted a game mechanic through which players/sites can buy and sell credits legally, so long as SOE is pocketing the real cash.  SOE maintains that credit selling is against hte terms of the EULA, except in the case of them doing it themselves through a game mechanic they create to allow it.

3.  The only way to get this "new content" (except for an exceedingly small chance) is by paying more money, in a game that has subscription fee equal to the highest in the industry.

4.  SWG is still a fundamentally flawed and broken game, and instead of fixing some of the obviously broken things, they are spending all kinds of money/time on the TCG sideshow.

5.  SOE has a history of being shortsighted and changing the game to benifit themselves and not the game or playerbase.

How's that for a start?

Probably unlikely that anyone here did, but I have a guildmate who still pays to play that bought a $99 box when they first came out. He said he felt cheap afterwards.

Most of us here probably did not fall for SOEs card scam, but I am sure plenty of other people did.

Just FYI, several 3rd party sites are listing the loot cards for vehicles at $250 or more. Yes, this is not a misprint. Not going to put the link here, but someone did on the offical boards in one of the TCG threads.

This whole deal is really upsetting some people on the official boards. But nothing SOE does chasing a buck could surprise me at this point....

More comments from the official forums, and Smed said this TCG was "well received", sheesh:

TITLE: The TCG betrayal isnt gonna happen with Player Housing too, right?

Kennobi:

They will make more money adding them into the TCG and having people buy boosters to get them so most likely all new stuff will be added as loot cards in the TCG, they really don't care about what we think as long as we'll keep paying and people keep buying booster packs.

ArchRafael:

running a business... into the ground

there are alot of reasons this TCG is not nessecarily good business.

If they are playing slash-n-burn, getting what extra change they can before this ship cracks at the keel and goes under, then fine, its "good business".

For the long-term health of SWG this TCG is very , very bad.

Business is strategy. SWG started out as a game geared for pretty intellectual, high-end , long-term player. SOE keeps moving towards stupider and stupider playstyles. Instant graification, shortcuts and smipler game systems.

So if SOE plans to let the game die, then yes this a good strategy to maximize profit on the way out.

Celaro:

It's not so much about the items. It's more about the way these items are being put into the game and not accessable to everyone(other than getting very lucky once a month, or gambling by buying these retarded booster packs). We all pay the same monthly fees. Some more than others by multiple accounts. Yet SOE feels the need to introduce brand new items in a way very few people can get them without having to spend a ridiculous amount of REAL LIFE money.

The fact that new items for this game come from a game that is only loosely based on SWG is, at least to me, insulting. SWG items should come from SWG content. TCG cards should stay in the TCG and only in the TCG.

Therealmacoys:

the only way to get new content is to spend more money

wow thats crooked

Plenty more where that came from, until it gets deleted. Most of the threads I have cut/pasted from do not last long. Most are not even locked anymore. The Mods there are violating their own rules over this stuff, because "loot cards", as ingame items, are legitimate topics for "gameplay discussion."

"Well received" indeed.

Originally posted by Sharkypal

Originally posted by Deivos

I would like to note that for anything, including games, it is typically 'whoever spends more is better'.

 

It's not for a flaw in the system or game itself, but because there is and always will be people willing to pay for just about anything so they can just sit back and 'reap the rewards'. Even if it's some thing as simple as getting some money in a game, leveling up, or finding a swanky item.

 

Gotta say, you would have to be one delusional kook to think this has not been going on in the game for some time all ready. Or would it be more the situation that by SOE creating a legal method along similar veins as all the companies that do it through illegal means too much of an undeniable actualization to the situation for one to cope with in their bubble?

 

In that light, I'm inclined to say that cards in the long run change absolutely nothing. The game willl continue to limp on be it with the 'veterans' or the new people, and everyone will just have to deal with it.

 

Wrong, in SWGs case anyway. You cant buy things like the "Cloak of Hate" etc. They can ONLY be achieved through the quests and collections.

I do concede part of your point however. There are always people who buy credits/isk/gold etc and they are time and time again the WORST players.

S

A big difference here, is that this is official sanctioned by SOE. Both the selling of card packs for cash, going to SOE, and people who buy and then resell for credits, again, sanctioned by SOE.

What game that is not a F2P does this?

So you have credit selling by a company and a RMT lottery in one.

Both negatively affect game play, and both sanctioned here by SOE.

A few more non-disgruntled vet opinions from the official boards on the TCG:

Niibersen:

Yea, I'm pretty sick of them adding everything is some stupid grind collection or the freaking TCG. So many nice items in the TCG that I'm not paying more money for that should be added into the game for free. I know, I know, "just buy em with credits" but people are charing huge sums of credits for em, which is insane.

Ceras:

Because SOE's management only want to make fast money and dont care what players want ?!?

They need six month to bring hoth to live , remember its only a pve encounter which becomes boring after doing it 20 times , but allow for money to give their right to bring in game starwars items that are not obtainable trouhg normal gameplay a outstanding firm ? Joke !

BigDgrant:

As a veteran player I would like the opportunity to obtain these vehicles but have absolutely no interest in the TCG or spending my own money to get these rewards.

Seems totally unfair for someone who's been playing for years to be asked to fork out more money.To me its just a cynical money making ploy to fleece players.I hate greed and thats what this is.

ArchRaefael:

undock TCG from SWG entirely. make it entirely seperate with no ingame items, no ingame launching, no cross-marketing, no loot-cards in-game, none of that.

so they wont do that of course because TCG is nothing but a marketing gimmick to hook fanbois for their lunch money.

Stuff in that thread likely won't last long either, but a lot of the same.

Originally posted by Sharkypal

Originally posted by Burntvet

And just so it isn't said that it only we "disgruntled vets" that think so little of this TCG BS, here is a selection of comments from the offical boards in one thread, many, many others have been deleted or locked:

Amellie:

SOE are fully aware that players who only want the loot will pay for countless unused packs.
it was their idea all along. £$£$£$£$£$£

 

Sephiroth445:

I know we got those fantastic goggles that no body wears and some really useful paintings recently (please note the sarcasm), and who can forget the recent Halloween items, but why oh why can't SOE introduce a new ship/vehicle/weapon/armour/clothing/jewellery to the game without the need for buying any number of TCG packs, hoping, praying, that the gods smile on you and give you that loot card you've been praying for.
 

GlargtheKelfn:

yea, becaue the american way of screwing every last dollar out of your customers while making them hate you has always been good....

 

Celaro:

I don't know. We pay them to develop our game and they make new items but only make them attainable through the TCG. We already paid them to make the items, why are we supposed to pay more to be able to get them?

Oh, and "you can get them by free booster packs". You need to be incredibly lucky to get the items you want and that method could take you years. As opposed to them creating a form of in game content where the new items would be a reward.

 

ArchRafael:

the rare collection drops have been used to encourage 'problem gambling' type behavior using random reinforcement.

now they roll out the TCG packs and create an avenue for people to spend real money feeding into the same type behavior.

from a business point of view, gambling is very lucrative and creating addicts even more so.

from a moral point of view it doesnt get much lower.

 

Guess all is not well in "Obraik's SWG (TM)".

Some of that stuff sounds familiar, huh?

 

 

 

The real kick in the teeth is that they COULD be working on new content for the game (as well as fixes) instead of the Trading card Lottery (TM).

It is certainly gambling and hopefully the fact that they are breaking the law will get the TCG shut down. They are essentially nothing more than virtual "scratch and win" cards.

S

The mods must have gotten their marching order from SOE about any badmouthingof  the TCG, the thread I copied these from was deleted not 10 minutes after I posted bits from it here....

And just so it isn't said that it only we "disgruntled vets" that think so little of this TCG BS, here is a selection of comments from the offical boards in one thread, many, many others have been deleted or locked:

Amellie:

SOE are fully aware that players who only want the loot will pay for countless unused packs.
it was their idea all along. £$£$£$£$£$£

Sephiroth445:

I know we got those fantastic goggles that no body wears and some really useful paintings recently (please note the sarcasm), and who can forget the recent Halloween items, but why oh why can't SOE introduce a new ship/vehicle/weapon/armour/clothing/jewellery to the game without the need for buying any number of TCG packs, hoping, praying, that the gods smile on you and give you that loot card you've been praying for.
 

GlargtheKelfn:

yea, becaue the american way of screwing every last dollar out of your customers while making them hate you has always been good....

Celaro:

I don't know. We pay them to develop our game and they make new items but only make them attainable through the TCG. We already paid them to make the items, why are we supposed to pay more to be able to get them?

Oh, and "you can get them by free booster packs". You need to be incredibly lucky to get the items you want and that method could take you years. As opposed to them creating a form of in game content where the new items would be a reward.

ArchRafael:

the rare collection drops have been used to encourage 'problem gambling' type behavior using random reinforcement.

now they roll out the TCG packs and create an avenue for people to spend real money feeding into the same type behavior.

from a business point of view, gambling is very lucrative and creating addicts even more so.

from a moral point of view it doesnt get much lower.

Guess all is not well in "Obraik's SWG (TM)".

Some of that stuff sounds familiar, huh?

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by Burntvet

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by Burntvet

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by Burntvet

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by efefia

Originally posted by Obraik

 

Also, you have an equal chance of getting a loot card fro