Originally posted by PatchDay

Even if we did take our space by force at least our targets could fight back. Killing weak targets in high sec is a totally different ball game

 

 

Weak? If I attack a 3 month+ char in high sec in a frigate he has choices;

- the choice of not becoming a target by not jetcan mining or by having protection

- the choice of not being stupid and reacting to me

- the choice to have invested in PVP skills and the time/effort to learn game mechanics

I kill younger players (nothing below a month old, those have a real excuse to not know the game) and much, MUCH older players than me and I win most of the time. Why? Because they couldn't be bothered to learn the game. That's their CHOICE. Instead of getting Exhumers to 5 they could have invested a bit on being PVP viable and being in an active corp where people actually work together instead of being zombies.

Again, their choice and (in this case) their loss. I meet lots of people I can't take on, both young as old because they took rpecautions or because they reacted in a way that made me lose the advantage. If they can do it, so can others. If those others don't WANT to do it that's their problem.

Originally posted by Soraellion

- There is no grind in EVE, only if you impose it onto yourself. Your choice

- I kill bigger ships while flying smaller ships, small corps can completely anihilate bigger ones. The "bigger gun" idea doesn't neccesarily hold up. Sure, if you go for the obvious and go in headfirst then yeah but if you play it smart then it doesn't have to be. Again, that's a choice... it really is.

- the idea that any game takes skill is debatable, thing is that EVE mostly takes other kinds of skills than most games/MMO's. Playerskill is much more a factor than in most other MMO's, age isn't neccesarily a factor. If you really think it is then you haven't understood/played EVE properly (no offense, just a statement).

 

 

 

No grind in Eve unless I impose it on myself...ok so I will admit no one HAS TO mine, craft, do those repetivite quests, train up skills, or anything else.

Honestly, what else are you doing than something inevitably repetitive in order to improve yourself in that game? There's only so many things you can do to begin with.

And the bigger gun statement holds up as an example even in your case, as the smaller ship doesn't mean it's a worse ship, you just move in and out of range and keep to the larger ships drafts and you're safe, whoopty doo, nothing new.

And I can get you trying to defend player skill in this game, but honestly it's rather a aggrandized view of what people are doing. There's just the basic tactics for the most part. In other words, what you SHOULD do given your particular vessel and stats vs your opponent. Perhaps it's because I come from strategy games and tactical games, but I honestly have never had any issues in PvP when I played, and that was the problem. It was too easy to win. If I wasn't playing properly, then what was I supposed to do, turn my brain off?

Originally posted by G_Ravenor

ok in response to the post asking people to say what they do like I thought it would be interesting to see what some people don't like I am aware that this may attract trolls, so please only put what you think and don't respond to any negative posts that you feel are wrong!!

Personally I would say it is the same as the thing I like about the game, the freedom, as it can be very daunting and somewhat confusing as to what you want to do next sometimes its nice to have the decisions made for you

2 things I disliked about eve-online.

1) The lack of a real character.  I know they are planning on letting you wander around space stations and the like (maybe they already released it? I dunno) but being that your character is really your ship there was just too much of a break between myself and that which was my representative.

2) The whole idea of skill training by time rather than by use.  Granted it is unique and is a definite way to keep people subscribing longer, it just turned me off.  Not being able to actually watch myself improve while I played the game was a huge turnoff.

Originally posted by Deivos

 

No grind in Eve unless I impose it on myself...ok so I will admit no one HAS TO mine, craft, do those repetivite quests, train up skills, or anything else.

Honestly, what else are you doing that something inevitably repetitive in order to improve yourself in that game? There's only so many things you can do to begin with.

 

And the bigger gun statement holds up as an example even in your case, as the smaller ship doesn't mean it's a worse ship, you just move in and out of range and keep to the larger ships drafts and you're safe, whoopty doo, nothing new.

 

And I can get you trying to defend player skill in this game, but honestly it's rather a aggrandized view of what people are doing. There's just the basic tactics for the most part. In other words, what you SHOULD do given your particular vessel and stats vs your opponent. Perhaps it's because I come from strategy games and tactical games, but I honestly have never had any issues in PvP when I played, and that was the problem. It was too easy to win. If I wasn't playing properly, then what was I supposed to do, turn my brain off?

I don't mine, the only misisons I ever ran was to get a lvl 4 locator agent, I don't need to grind faction, xp or anything. Cash I make doing different things; PVP and trading mostly. I'm wealthy enough to never run into cash trouble unless I do stupid things. Thing is I do things that are fun at that moment in time, the game doesn't force me to do anything unlike other MMO's. If you go by your definition then life itself is a grind and if you follow that idea there's nothing that can help you, certainly not some MMO.

I kill cruisers, BC's and even BS's (at times) with a T1 frigate, sometimes I switch ship to be able to counter them ofcourse and we're not talking nanocrap here. Not boasting but just stating how it is/can be.

Your last part is funny; You state understanding your strengths/weaknesses and those of your target's as not needing skill. You state having tactical awareness os not needing skill. Appearantly it does, otherwise you wouldn't have the upper hand so often (as you state). Again, if you don't see tactical awareness/game knowledge as a skill then WHAT is? Having a 0.0001 reaction time? Knowing how to bunnyhop?

EVE isn't a simulation, it's an RTS where you need lots of peopleskills once you get higher up. That's what it is.

Other issues I've had and why I'm off/on with this game:

* point and click rather then fly my own ship.

* Caldari Achura is by far a no-brainer. Only other 2nd choice is Amarr Cyberknights. I think their races is plain unbalanced

* Ugly ships. My gallente covert ops wa snice looking and CCP changed it into an ugly ass imicus hull. CCP dont listen; no one wanted this change. At least not be lazy and make new ship model. Dont reskin Imicus with an even crappier texture. Dominix looks like total crap too and I am stuck with it

* Many ships seem broken and not worth training for

* Ships I can train for next are ungodly expensive. Losing a maruader would destroy me

* Game is heavily money driven. If I leave for a few weeks then come back I gotta reinsure my ships. This is fucking bullshit I am damn near broke from insurance

I want to leave but this is by and far the best pvp MMO overall so kinda stuck. Trying out WAR but its class based and WoW clonish so not sure how long I can stand it

Originally posted by PatchDay

Other issues I've had and why I'm off/on with this game:

* point and click rather then fly my own ship.

* Caldari Achura is by far a no-brainer. Only other 2nd choice is Amarr Cyberknights. I think their races is plain unbalanced

* Ugly ships. My gallente covert ops wa snice looking and CCP changed it into an ugly ass imicus hull. CCP dont listen; no one wanted this change. At least not be lazy and make new ship model. Dont reskin Imicus with an even crappier texture. Dominix looks like total crap too and I am stuck with it

* Many ships seem broken and not worth training for

* Ships I can train for next are ungodly expensive. Losing a maruader would destroy me

* Game is heavily money driven. If I leave for a few weeks then come back I gotta reinsure my ships. This is fucking bullshit I am damn near broke from insurance

I want to leave but this is by and far the best pvp MMO overall so kinda stuck. Trying out WAR but its class based and WoW clonish so not sure how long I can stand it

 

* I'd rather be playing Elite as well but it's an RTS, not a simulation

* I have several chars, none of them are Achura or cyberknight. I'd rather not look like something the cat barfed up instead of training a wee bit faster

* previous Helios was the best looking frig, now it's crap. Personally I like the Dominix.

* only broken shipclasses are stealthbombers and Blackops ships (and titans imo), rest is useful and works.

* why would you want a Marauder in the first place? Ships are tools, expect to lose them. Fly and fit appropriately.

* Why are you insuring all your ships? Besides it's 3 months, not a few weeks

* yeah heh, you can take a break but never leave, such is the curse of an EVE player :(

Originally posted by Soraellion

Originally posted by Deivos

 

No grind in Eve unless I impose it on myself...ok so I will admit no one HAS TO mine, craft, do those repetivite quests, train up skills, or anything else.

Honestly, what else are you doing that something inevitably repetitive in order to improve yourself in that game? There's only so many things you can do to begin with.

 

And the bigger gun statement holds up as an example even in your case, as the smaller ship doesn't mean it's a worse ship, you just move in and out of range and keep to the larger ships drafts and you're safe, whoopty doo, nothing new.

 

And I can get you trying to defend player skill in this game, but honestly it's rather a aggrandized view of what people are doing. There's just the basic tactics for the most part. In other words, what you SHOULD do given your particular vessel and stats vs your opponent. Perhaps it's because I come from strategy games and tactical games, but I honestly have never had any issues in PvP when I played, and that was the problem. It was too easy to win. If I wasn't playing properly, then what was I supposed to do, turn my brain off?

 

I don't mine, the only misisons I ever ran was to get a lvl 4 locator agent, I don't need to grind faction, xp or anything. Cash I make doing different things; PVP and trading mostly. I'm wealthy enough to never run into cash trouble unless I do stupid things. Thing is I do things that are fun at that moment in time, the game doesn't force me to do anything unlike other MMO's. If you go by your definition then life itself is a grind and if you follow that idea there's nothing that can help you, certainly not some MMO.

I kill cruisers, BC's and even BS's (at times) with a T1 frigate, sometimes I switch ship to be able to counter them ofcourse and we're not talking nanocrap here. Not boasting but just stating how it is/can be.

Your last part is funny; You state understanding your strengths/weaknesses and those of your target's as not needing skill. You state having tactical awareness os not needing skill. Appearantly it does, otherwise you wouldn't have the upper hand so often (as you state). Again, if you don't see tactical awareness/game knowledge as a skill then WHAT is? Having a 0.0001 reaction time? Knowing how to bunnyhop?

EVE isn't a simulation, it's an RTS where you need lots of peopleskills once you get higher up. That's what it is.

 

Was thinking about it a bit, and yes I have to admit I have a pretty narrow view of skill. I was defining skill as having the knowledge and understanding to accurately predict the battle and what needs to be done beforehand and knowing the outcome more or less as being skill.

I can admit that skill is obviously more than that, but you're still giving too much credit to Eve. Let me put it in view by comparing it to the army. What is a grunt taught?

On a basic level, exactly what you said. They have to have tactical awareness on the battlefield, be able to properly assess targets, and be able to plan out strategy to attack.

What is a spec ops taught?

A hell of a lot more. On a basic level they have to know and understand factions and individual mentalities, predict situations that they haven't even entered into yet, understand and assess threats well before direct confrontation, etc.

What does a General know?

Enough to make you never want to play Go against them. They have to be able to understand their enemy fully prior to engagement, they have to understand fully the time/resources/effort it takes for each individual engagement prior to action. They have to be able to ensure an outcome before a single soldiers foot touches the ground.

Obviously there's pretty much no game that requires that much planning, not even an RTS. That doesn't stop one from being able to apply such skills moderately well to the game.

Neither does this change though, that it is not needed, and by in large in any battle larger than 1v1 the idea of true skill and strategy frequently breaks down in favor of players zerging and throwing the most powerful things they have at one another.

And of course you're not boasting, you can't be, because you would be boasting that you're beating people that for all intensive purposes obviously have no clue what they're doing.

And I still stand by the grind remark, as while you don't have to practice any skills actively to train them up, you do have to do something, and that something is pretty limited. PvP and trading...great so you shoot people and sell stuff. As a person said before, If I really found interest in that I would work on Wall Street (though it would probably be economically safer to do that stuff in Eve right now. ). Point being, you're still doing the same things again and again. Buy/sell, blow up and salvage, or just meander about and stare at planets and space stations.

Life being a grind only happens when you don't look to do something new and innovate. Unlike Eve, you can think up new things and actually do them rather than hope it gets added in a future patch. I can at least get out of my car and walk about all ready.

Originally posted by Soraellion

Originally posted by PatchDay

Other issues I've had and why I'm off/on with this game:

* point and click rather then fly my own ship.

* Caldari Achura is by far a no-brainer. Only other 2nd choice is Amarr Cyberknights. I think their races is plain unbalanced

* Ugly ships. My gallente covert ops wa snice looking and CCP changed it into an ugly ass imicus hull. CCP dont listen; no one wanted this change. At least not be lazy and make new ship model. Dont reskin Imicus with an even crappier texture. Dominix looks like total crap too and I am stuck with it

* Many ships seem broken and not worth training for

* Ships I can train for next are ungodly expensive. Losing a maruader would destroy me

* Game is heavily money driven. If I leave for a few weeks then come back I gotta reinsure my ships. This is fucking bullshit I am damn near broke from insurance

I want to leave but this is by and far the best pvp MMO overall so kinda stuck. Trying out WAR but its class based and WoW clonish so not sure how long I can stand it

 

 

* I'd rather be playing Elite as well but it's an RTS, not a simulation

* I have several chars, none of them are Achura or cyberknight. I'd rather not look like something the cat barfed up instead of training a wee bit faster

* previous Helios was the best looking frig, now it's crap. Personally I like the Dominix.

* only broken shipclasses are stealthbombers and Blackops ships (and titans imo), rest is useful and works.

* why would you want a Marauder in the first place? Ships are tools, expect to lose them. Fly and fit appropriately.

* Why are you insuring all your ships? Besides it's 3 months, not a few weeks

* yeah heh, you can take a break but never leave, such is the curse of an EVE player :(

I only insure my T1 ships (Battlecruiser / Battleship). I dont insure my T2 frigs.

You like the Domi shape? Man I wish they gave like 3 different ship hull options per ship for those of us that are vain. But I take it most EVE players are not vain but just use them as tools

I'd like to have a T2 to look forward too that would totally blow through L4 missions and rats. But the way the game is setup- after I acquire Drone Interfacing V / BS V I'm just gonna be stuck in a ship hull I hate (Domi)

Originally posted by Soraellion

Originally posted by PatchDay

Even if we did take our space by force at least our targets could fight back. Killing weak targets in high sec is a totally different ball game

 

 

 

Weak? If I attack a 3 month+ char in high sec in a frigate he has choices;

- the choice of not becoming a target by not jetcan mining or by having protection

- the choice of not being stupid and reacting to me

- the choice to have invested in PVP skills and the time/effort to learn game mechanics

 

I kill younger players (nothing below a month old, those have a real excuse to not know the game) and much, MUCH older players than me and I win most of the time. Why? Because they couldn't be bothered to learn the game. That's their CHOICE. Instead of getting Exhumers to 5 they could have invested a bit on being PVP viable and being in an active corp where people actually work together instead of being zombies.

Again, their choice and (in this case) their loss. I meet lots of people I can't take on, both young as old because they took rpecautions or because they reacted in a way that made me lose the advantage. If they can do it, so can others. If those others don't WANT to do it that's their problem.

 

 

Fair enough; I was making an assumption I've never tried pirating myself.