I do not know why this discussion is so long and heated. It is pretty clear that PvP is the weakest part of the WoW product offer (WoW as a whole is an excellent product as many have stated).

WAR will hit WoW where it has the potential to hurt the most. None here will know how WAR will fare and how hard WoW will have felt the blow in 12months time. As a consumer I am cheering all the way since competition just means that my USD/EUR are more worth.

Originally posted by Kabbax

Originally posted by Smatthews

Originally posted by memoir

WAR = SHORTCUT

Everything in it is a shortcut.

No decent PVE end raiding. 2 capitols instead of 6. No decent professions. No flying units. No open seamless world. No arena in a PvP game (!). No open world PvP (everything is instanced).

No decent fast PvP fights.

The only thing not shortcutted is the hyping.

Wow delivers without shortcuts.

 

 

LOL wow doesn't have shortcuts, what game do you play? You sit in Org and you can go to any pvp you want with one click.  And yes there is open world pvp in war good try though.  And for all the world pvp in wow defenders, you clearly understand nothing about world pvp.  Mabye a few times every few months (depending on the server), a few guilds get together and do world pvp in halaa for a little bit.  This is sad and cannot called world pvp.  And this is coming from a pvp player in wow, its what i do more then anything eles in wow.  I can't do the bgs anymore because I have been doing the same thing in there for years, and the changes only made them more of a mindless grind.  I can't tell you how many times I have seen wsg or ab over the past few years, and im not even a hardcore gamer.  Arenas, well they arn't my thing, but people seem to like them so grats.  But this was not something that a lot pvpers even care about that much, if it didn't give great gear, would you still do it?  Honestly wow offers very little for pvp and to those of you who can't understand that there are no options for us pvpers in wow then you need to look at the game a lot closer and see that pvpers get nothing (no new pvp content since tbc and since the bgs, nothing new before that besides the failed epl).  Thats right nothing new since the expansion, im sry but waiting almost 2 years for new pvp content is unexpetable.

 

 

Warhammer is not going to be your Holy Grail.

I've played Mythic games for more then a decade, and i can tell you that you will get bored of the battlegrounds in Warhammer as you have in WoW if you play them excessively for years.

The World PvP in Warhammer is not going to be like the golden days of DAoC. It will cater to a more focused, arena like, crowd.

It will start out awesome, but in six months the cream will rise to the top and the casuals won't like the world pvp anymore, and they'll turn to the instances. The World PvP will be the elite vs elite just like WoWs arenas. Except people will doubt the developers when they lose, They will complain to Mythic and about Mythic for bad balance, or blame competing guilds of using radar or whatever other excuses they can come up with that does not include their own lack of ability.

Warhammer is like DAoC, without the third realm, and focused on the Battlegrounds. But instanced instead of persistent like the old killajoe, molvik, lion's den, whatever....

so true, im suprised not as many people realize this but it is themselves to blame for boring situations ingame because they themselves have made it boring.

Originally posted by AlienShirt

Each of the current BGs need tweaking and upgrading in WotLK. Sadly I don't see anything being done. Instead they are giving us another large scale BG that will soon turn into another rush to the finish like AV. So much potential...such poor implementation.

Short and my point exactly.

I dont wanna compare WOW and AOC or WAR pvp content, there is nothing to compare, but to be honest imo AoC was disaster as game, same like Anarhy online. After God knows how many years, its stil buged unpolished, unfinished.

New expansion  is coming and with wotlk, new dungeons (51+ as someone mentioned before), and nothing new to pvp, same old 4 bg's, arena, tourny. Some will say: "wow isnt pvp game, go play something else if u wanna pvp".
They may be right, but from time to time i still like some bg's with friends, and some new would be just right thing.

Well, I've just reached level70 close to a month ago and hit a brick wall almost immediately in World of Warcraft. I asked myself what is there to do now besides the same instance dungeons over and over again. Then I looked at the PvP and saw it was too the same instance dungeons over and over again. I don't mind the PvE dungeons being repetitive but when it comes to PvP, that should take a much longer time in the long run. However, I still don't get until this day why would someone could be totally dedicated to PvE in WoW (I can completely understand to sandbox standards). I'm not being mean, I just have never absorbed the meaning of getting new and godly items... then just look at them or go on the same dungeon again with the same repetitive AI. Hell, even the raiding bored me to tears with a bunch of people yelling over vent about their strategy they looked up online. At the least if there was a meaningful and fun World PvP system in place, then it would give a meaning to getting newer gear at level70.  This is pretty much why I unsubscribed from WoW.

They definitely didn't put the WAR in Warcraft. Much different when the game first came out and there was actual World PvP going on because of the no bgs.

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Originally posted by Rytif
Well, I've just reached level70 close to a month ago and hit a brick wall almost immediately in World of Warcraft. I asked myself what is there to do now besides the same instance dungeons over and over again. Then I looked at the PvP and saw it was too the same instance dungeons over and over again. I don't mind the PvE dungeons being repetitive but when it comes to PvP, that should take a much longer time in the long run. However, I still don't get until this day why would someone could be totally dedicated to PvE in WoW (I can completely understand to sandbox standards). I'm not being mean, I just have never absorbed the meaning of getting new and godly items... then just look at them or go on the same dungeon again with the same repetitive AI. Hell, even the raiding bored me to tears with a bunch of people yelling over vent about their strategy they looked up online. At the least if there was a meaningful and fun World PvP system in place, then it would give a meaning to getting newer gear at level70.  This is pretty much why I unsubscribed from WoW.
They definitely didn't put the WAR in Warcraft. Much different when the game first came out and there was actual World PvP going on because of the no bgs.

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Originally posted by Rytif

Well, I've just reached level70 close to a month ago and hit a brick wall almost immediately in World of Warcraft.

Why didn't you start an alt?

Originally posted by Pappy13

Originally posted by Rytif

Well, I've just reached level70 close to a month ago and hit a brick wall almost immediately in World of Warcraft.

 

Why didn't you start an alt?

No offense but one shouldn't have to make an alt to continue enjoying a game.  I too made it to cap (back when it was still 60) and quit shortly after that due to not enough to keep me wanting more.  There needs to be more to a game than faction grinding.

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by Pappy13

Originally posted by Rytif

Well, I've just reached level70 close to a month ago and hit a brick wall almost immediately in World of Warcraft.

 

Why didn't you start an alt?

No offense but one shouldn't have to make an alt to continue enjoying a game.  I too made it to cap (back when it was still 60) and quit shortly after that due to not enough to keep me wanting more.  There needs to be more to a game than faction grinding.

I think alts are an important part of MMOs.  most have a diverse set of classes, so alts let you try them all out.  I made 2 60s before BC came out, 1 was DPS the other a healer.  they were completely different to play, then I got both to 70, and later made a druid, got to 69 before quitting.

WoW is based almost entirely off grinding.  gear, XP and faction.  however it is fun for awhile, I found it a lot of fun back when I could grind all 3 (which you can't do at max level), then later you can't grind for gear while you grind faction because you have it all, then you run out of faction to grind.

WoW has to keep adding content because you run out.  WAR won't have as much of a problem because PvP is more player driven.  that DOESN'T mean they won't have to add content.  This entire thread is based on lack of PvP content additions.

When a MMO makes you to play twinks or alts, it has to little content. wow is such a game.

Someone of my guild (in the wow sector) has one of all classes on lvl 70. This is the aim in wow? Sounds funny.

Originally posted by Kilmar

When a MMO makes you to play twinks or alts, it has to little content. wow is such a game.

Someone of my guild (in the wow sector) has one of all classes on lvl 70. This is the aim in wow? Sounds funny.

Oh do pray tell what is the aim of EQ2!

Originally posted by SonofSeth

Originally posted by Kilmar

When a MMO makes you to play twinks or alts, it has to little content. wow is such a game.

Someone of my guild (in the wow sector) has one of all classes on lvl 70. This is the aim in wow? Sounds funny.

 

Oh do pray tell what is the aim of EQ2!

After leveling to 70 you get to grind out psuedo levels called AA.  Who needs alts when you are effectively never out of levels to grind. 

Maybe play an online card game or just sell them for ingame items or cash, either way.  I think the biggest pastime is actually talking about how great EQ2 is in 1 sentence and 25 paragraphs of how bad WoW is.  It really seems to be the bond that glues the EQ2 people together.

Once in a great while you get to hear people talk about the actual gameplay of EQ2, but never in much detail.

Originally posted by SonofSeth

Originally posted by Kilmar

When a MMO makes you to play twinks or alts, it has to little content. wow is such a game.

Someone of my guild (in the wow sector) has one of all classes on lvl 70. This is the aim in wow? Sounds funny.

 

Oh do pray tell what is the aim of EQ2!

Questing.

I made all quests with my nightelf hunter in a few weeks. I finished TBC in under a week.

The content in EQ2 needs at least a half year intensive gaming for seeing all content.

The aim in wow is just gear. When you have enough gear, you just start the next char.

But I know, you cant see my point with your Blizzard glasses...

I'm no EQ2 Fanboy. I cant stand EQ2, I play since release but quitted very often