Yeah, it's so nice to see someone arguing with using a totally low-res, no-AA screenshot of LOTRO trying to prove his "point".

I own both LOTRO and GW. Can play both on full quality settings. They're not even in close leagues to each other. Sorry Umbral, GW looks crap compared to LOTRO.

DB

Don't agree with Umbral. Next time you post screenshots from LOTRO, try a little better.

http://www.ifoto.si/index.php?page=img&id=1254&size=3

http://www.ifoto.si/index.php?page=img&id=1253&size=3

http://www.ifoto.si/index.php?page=img&id=1252&size=3 

It's not the best, but is not bad either.

There is a mistake here, Im not saying Guild Wars looks better than Lotro, as I said it is an older game made to run in weaker machines.

What I said is, Guild Wars does not suffer from the inconsistencies  Lotro suffers (characters x landscapes).

Yes, I disagree that Guild Wars looks horrible (liking or disliking the game).

About AA or no AA in the Lotro screenshot, it doesnt matter, my point is not based on texture resolution or alias, I got random screenshots of these games... and again, it is not a permanent point as a mmo can always improve.

...

Originally posted by DonnieBrasco

Yeah, it's so nice to see someone arguing with using a totally low-res, no-AA screenshot of LOTRO trying to prove his "point".

I own both LOTRO and GW. Can play both on full quality settings. They're not even in close leagues to each other. Sorry Umbral, GW looks crap compared to LOTRO.

DB

I would disagree...

GW

Cutscene in game engine

Note facial details, something LOTRO totally throws out the window

Eye of the North added VERY open landscapes, 90% of this image's landscape is accesible

As always, Gorgeous females abound, that LOTRO still forgets about

LOTRO

Females look like a barbie doll (no details)

Having a seat (lol)

All characters facial details are just plastic

But, the one thing LOTRO always get right?

Landscapes

All of the LOTRO images are full quality and AA on...

I see a huge quality discrepency between GW and LOTRO. In my opinion...GW is MUCH better.

Originally posted by musicman2000

Hrmmm I"m astounded that someone would put Guildwars Avatars above LOTRO -- I mean come on -- every  class has 1 avatar.   So I think that was a HUGE exageration.

As far as realism goes -- I've yet to see an MMO that looks realistic -- period.  End that discussion right there, realism is a red herring.

Now this was about AoC vs LOTRO but degraded to a  percentage of gamers who didn't like the avatars in LOTRO and some folks who decided to call upon *proper art critique* to decide they were bad.   In no way do I feel my avatars don't fit the environment -- that's never been an issue for me personally.   And save the *you have bad taste* response because the whole *my opinion is based on the way art ought to look* garbage is dragging this thread in to the toilet.

My immediate reaction is people didn't take enough time at character creation to improve on their avatars -- but again it appears to be coming down to personal opinion.

I've yet to see a single screen shot from AoC that appeals to me, don't even mention Guild wars with graphics it was hardly a graphical masterpiece in comparison to AoC, WAR, Vanguard and LOTRO.    I found DDO to be far worse than Guild wars even -- DDO has to be the worst looking MMO in existance atm.  So again that comes back to personal opinion.

One point to take away from all this is if you go online you'll get a variety of opinions on what *looks* good -- we could start a thread on music in MMO's and get a thread as equally diverse in it's opinion base!! Music, visual art, etc are very very subjective mediums -- no one's opinion is the opinion by which all other opinions should be measured.   Everybody plays games that they feel immersed in to and enjoy what they see.   

I will concede however that the very title of the thread and wording of the OP was inciteful and earned some of the responses -- my only point is that there is great variety out there and there has been a major improvement recently with over all appearance in MMO's.   My unbias'd opinion is that WAR, AoC, Vanguard and LOTRO are all in the same league -- my preference is LOTRO followed closely by WAR and Vanguard.  AoC not so much.

Cheers!

So, let me get this straight...you would rather a female looked like this...

LOTRO 1

LOTRO 2

Vanguard

Than this?

AoC 1

AoC 2

GW

Hmmm...taste is relative, and it makes me wonder how you visualize these images...

Yes I would --- amazing how different people have different opinions.

Umbral -- I didn't misunderstand your posts -- thanks for rexplaining the exact same thing.   I know exactly what you're referring to and guess what!! Miracuously we don't come to the same conclusions.  Stop declaring subjective interpretaions as fact and all will be well.

Your LOTRO screenshots as pointed out are on low res and yes don't look good. AoC -- I don't like the look sorry.  Guild wars -- I don't like the look sorry.

Artistically I respect and understand what you're saying -- I even told you it was worded poorly but I got what you meant!  However, we disagree on your conclusions!! 

There are many many people who feel LOTRO has the best graphics in MMO's atm -- and there are many who disagree.  No one is *right* and no one is *wrong* no matter how much we embellish our posts.

Originally posted by musicman2000

Yes I would --- amazing how different people have different opinions.

Umbral -- I didn't misunderstand your posts -- thanks for rexplaining the exact same thing.   I know exactly what you're referring to and guess what!! Miracuously we don't come to the same conclusions.  Stop declaring subjective interpretaions as fact and all will be well.

Your LOTRO screenshots as pointed out are on low res and yes don't look good. AoC -- I don't like the look sorry.  Guild wars -- I don't like the look sorry.

Artistically I respect and understand what you're saying -- I even told you it was worded poorly but I got what you meant!  However, we disagree on your conclusions!! 

There are many many people who feel LOTRO has the best graphics in MMO's atm -- and there are many who disagree.  No one is *right* and no one is *wrong* no matter how much we embellish our posts.

 

Are you speaking of my screenshots?

They were captured at 1920x1200 with AA and full post processing. So, why would you state otherwise?

I personally believe your answers deal with disagreeing to disagree, as I cannot comprehend how you could possibly feel the claymation like visuals of LOTRO are better than the multifaceted shaded AoC shots or the texture detailed GW screens.

Now, if you were to state that you do not like realistic visuals in your games, then THAT would make sense. I did see your remark of liking WAR's visuals better than AoC or GW also. This leads me to believe that the realistic nature of todays graphics are bothersome to your eye, and as such, you could not possibly see anything good within a character model that attempts to follow proper form and function.

WoW would also fit into this.

I think thanks to todays technology, I have moved beyond a cartoony style, and prefer a a more advanced visual style. I will stick with realistic in that respect.

Thanks for your input.

Originally posted by musicman2000

Yes I would --- amazing how different people have different opinions.

Umbral -- I didn't misunderstand your posts -- thanks for rexplaining the exact same thing.   I know exactly what you're referring to and guess what!! Miracuously we don't come to the same conclusions.  Stop declaring subjective interpretaions as fact and all will be well.

Taste is subjetive, discrepancies in the concept and  art style is a rational statement.

You made 2 mistakes.

1-You are too concerned with an absolute truth where no argumment has value

2-You think this is a matter of like and dislike, the only argument you have is what you like and what you hate, Im not talking about taste here, characters in Lotro are not at the same level of Lotro´s landscapes, you only need rational perception to realize that, it doesnt matter if you like it or not.

Reality and perception can be relative, of course, but you already showed you have no rational argument (beside what you like) to express why in your eyes Lotro has a coese visual between landscapes and characters.

Your LOTRO screenshots as pointed out are on low res and yes don't look good. AoC -- I don't like the look sorry.  Guild wars -- I don't like the look sorry.

I understand it is hard for you to forget the argument about what you like and what you dont like, this is pretty comon these days.

Inconscistences in art style is a rational matter, it is not limited to taste, this is a requirement for everyone that studied or work with cinema, art expression etc... sure, it is not a requirement for gamers, but we can talk about it here.

When someone say, I loathe how Lotro looks or I love how Lotro looks (exacly what you are doing) this person is expressing only personal taste, this is not the case.

 

Artistically I respect and understand what you're saying -- I even told you it was worded poorly but I got what you meant!  However, we disagree on your conclusions!! 

No, you are bounded to the common "like or dislike" perspective, the only reason why you think I worded it poorly is because... surprise... you are not able to understand the difference between a rational argument about esthetical/expression/artstyle and a opinion based only on taste. This is why, after so many arguments about the inconsistencies in Lotro´s visuals you were unable to express any argument beside the "but I like it".

Your only argument against is "I disagree"... dont you think a internet Forum would be pretty boring if everyone only used two bases of discussions "I agree/disagree", "I like/dislike"?

There are many many people who feel LOTRO has the best graphics in MMO's atm -- and there are many who disagree.  No one is *right* and no one is *wrong* no matter how much we embellish our posts.

I know you will disagree, but this is not the point as it will be boring to go on with this... anyway, you said you like how Warhammer looks, right?

Get your Warhammer character and explore a couple of locations, then join a couple of warbands and pay atention to all characters and landscapes...  then do the same in Lotro, then try to be rational about and ask yourself, wich one looks and feels more coese between landscapes, buildings and characters...

Originally posted by openedge1

So, let me get this straight...you would rather a female looked like this...

LOTRO 1

LOTRO 2

Vanguard

Than this?

AoC 1

AoC 2

GW

Hmmm...taste is relative, and it makes me wonder how you visualize these images...

Some of your screenshots are not working, but the ones that are working shows some of the clear issues among Lotro´s characters.

Art, modeling and posture.

Posture would be the easier issue to fix, if Turbine fix it, part of the goofy aspect would be removed from characters... Vanguard has a similar issue (I cant tell by your screenshot, but I played both games for a while).

Of course they need to improve the overall art to be on par with landscapes and Tolkien´s lore...

Well, about Guild Wars, it is impressive how a game that was released in April 2005 and run in ridiculous weak PCs still look so good.

Some examples of art inspired by Tolkien´s work ...sure a 3d model would never be exacly like a concept but it is easy to realize, characters in Lotro could be more expressive.

This is a small example of Alan Lee´s art, it is clear that a couple of landscapes in Lotro are inspired in his art work... but the goofy ingame characters, well, who knows what or who inspired Turbine...

Originally posted by musicman2000

Yes I would --- amazing how different people have different opinions.

Umbral -- I didn't misunderstand your posts -- thanks for rexplaining the exact same thing.   I know exactly what you're referring to and guess what!! Miracuously we don't come to the same conclusions.  Stop declaring subjective interpretaions as fact and all will be well.

Your LOTRO screenshots as pointed out are on low res and yes don't look good. AoC -- I don't like the look sorry.  Guild wars -- I don't like the look sorry.

Artistically I respect and understand what you're saying -- I even told you it was worded poorly but I got what you meant!  However, we disagree on your conclusions!! 

There are many many people who feel LOTRO has the best graphics in MMO's atm -- and there are many who disagree.  No one is *right* and no one is *wrong* no matter how much we embellish our posts.

 

Unfortunately, those who just come to these boards to bash will never both read and comprehend your last paragraph - like the one not even noticing that you are referring to the low-res, non-AA screenshots of LOTRO posted by Umbral :)

There is nothing more subjective than visuals. I could even believe that someone likes GW's graphics better, but this should have come from someone with at least a HINT of neutrality and credibility on these boards (again, NOT talking about Umbral :)

DB

Originally posted by Krasher

I played for about a month or so after initial release then stopped. Cant recall why exactly but I am sure my addiction to a certin other game (hint...me an 10 million others) had something to do with it.

Anyway, this game may be the best kept secret in MMO's. It has, by far the best graphics (I have played AoC and LoTR is far better). It uses DirectX 10 (only current MMO?)  and is just plain fun. I hope more people will give it a try. Dont expect it to compete membership wise with above un-named game...but would like for it to stay around for a long time. I think espec ially those that think AoC is best graphically should give it a shot. They are in for a surprise.

 

This just in: Vanilla is the best flavour......... not a well-known fact.

Yet another pointless subjective thread with opinion posing as fact.

[Yawn]

P.S. I found the LoTRO graphics to be much like the game as a whole... pretty good, fairly bland, mostly inoffensive, but with nothing particularly to recommend it.