Originally posted by Soraellion

They tried to make EVE with pirates, forgetting the fact that they were not the CCP of old (although the new CCP is shite) and most importantly, forgetting the fact that for it to work they needed EVE-like players, which there aren't a whole lot of. Most of them... play EVE.

CCP got away with a whole lot of problems, bugs, bad decisions and whatnot just because they are CCP,  we loved their game and fell in love with the niche concept. You can't simply copy that.

That reminds me of an old joke I heard somewhere, in a film or on TV.  This actress goes to an audition for a film part.  Then a few days later, the casting director tells her that she didn't get the part because they wanted a "Meryl Streep-type actress" for the role.  So who did they take for the part?  Meryl Streep.

You see that type of mistake everywhere.  Developers trying to emulate World of Warcraft hoping they'll get the same success, only realizing too late that the Warcraft players are going to stick with Warcraft as long as it remains playable.

Not to mention that in the case of PotBS, the world has nowhere near enough depth to appeal to EvE players.

Bingo,

Now try and explain that to the overpaid marketing managers who think they know so well, but leave dead businesses and broken dreams in the wake of their incompetence. They don't care, they got massively overpaid for spouting an opinion which turned out to be wrong. They'll just go to a new company and do it allover again.

the biggest thing that got me was i could not make a profit hauling cargo from 1 port to another (like most merchants did back then).  to hell with players and the AH as that is too random for me to make a profit, i wanted (and it is so easily implemented) to haul goods that NPC need from port to port getting faction rep and boosting that ports development

sadly (like in LOTRO) your not allowed to craft and make a profit off NPC sales. 

They started catering to the carebears in Beta and never stopped.  Just one problem, it was a PvP game.  They drove most of the PvP players out of the game.  Oh well, all the carebears are still standing on the docks crying for more changes and there is very little PvP action.

Originally posted by Mickle

They started catering to the carebears in Beta and never stopped.  Just one problem, it was a PvP game.  They drove most of the PvP players out of the game.  Oh well, all the carebears are still standing on the docks crying for more changes and there is very little PvP action.

Catering to carebears in Beta?  Surely you've heard of "no crying in the red circle"?

Also, your reasoning does not explain why for months after release the so-called hardcore PvPers exhorted FLS not to change a thing to the game, even though the game was clearly going down.

Also, if you read many of the complaints here and elsewhere, it's true that some players left over ganking (which I certainly wouldn't call PvP; would you?), but that many left because of the lack of a suitable endgame.  More yet are probably going to leave if the 1.7 changes turn out to be the final nail in the 1v1 PvP coffin.

Anyway, I've been trying out Navy Field these days, and I can see why that game works, as opposed to PotBS. It doesn't aspire to offering an endgame -- it's essentially what you see is what you get.  Small vessels still have a purpose in battles, whereas in PotBS they don't (they're just too weak to remain on the board for long).

PotBS made a series of design mistakes very early on (such as those red circles), which gave rise to a certain approach to PvP which left many dissatisfied.

Originally posted by Mickle

They started catering to the carebears in Beta and never stopped.  Just one problem, it was a PvP game.  They drove most of the PvP players out of the game.  Oh well, all the carebears are still standing on the docks crying for more changes and there is very little PvP action.

There was very little PvP action because several 6 player gank squads from different nations will co-exist in the same red circle waiting for those solitare PvE players to come along. Once the PvE victims left, the PvP died.

Pardon me for being ignorant (haven't actually played the live version), would there be an actual proper reason for said PVE player to be in the red circle in the first place? Is it an area he has to go through to get somnewhere else or get something done?

I think it was SOE, they always go for cash over indepth of a game. Reember Vanguard. BTW used to love the game but not many to play around. loved the PVP, won over some and enjoy it for a while. Hated the economy of it it was my liking. My last suscription time will end now and I'm not goin to keep it. I really loved the concept but don't know SWG was busted by cash loving SOE, Vanguard the same I think this was the same and last oportunity to a game of SOE for me.

the gameplay has changed ALOT since beta.

I got the game to try it out and the avatar combat has been redone and is ALOT more fun.

in fact, i usually prefer boarding the enemy craft instead of sinking it now.

and i don't know why you people are bitching about combat being too slow.

obviously you haven't been in a heated battled against a few enemy ships trying to completely cover you in from all sides while you are trying to find a space in between to break through and circle around enemy ship while waiting for backup to arrive and get there.

did you expect the battles to last a minute or two?

one on one battles will last a couple minutes but remember. this is SHIP combat.

its NOT supposed to be over in a couple minutes.

and now the ONLY time you lose something when your ship is sunk. are tradeable items and civ ships.

other than that you keep all the loot on you.

Originally posted by Soraellion

Pardon me for being ignorant (haven't actually played the live version), would there be an actual proper reason for said PVE player to be in the red circle in the first place? Is it an area he has to go through to get somnewhere else or get something done?

 

The reason I quit was because my quest log was full of completed quests that were to be turned in at ports in red circles. I didn't feel like getting ganked just to turn in quests.

Also, I don't know if it's still the case but it used to be that the economy tutorial missions had low level players going to ports that were almost always in a red circle.

Originally posted by Vetarnias

Originally posted by Mickle

They started catering to the carebears in Beta and never stopped.  Just one problem, it was a PvP game.  They drove most of the PvP players out of the game.  Oh well, all the carebears are still standing on the docks crying for more changes and there is very little PvP action.

Catering to carebears in Beta?  Surely you've heard of "no crying in the red circle"?

Also, your reasoning does not explain why for months after release the so-called hardcore PvPers exhorted FLS not to change a thing to the game, even though the game was clearly going down.

Also, if you read many of the complaints here and elsewhere, it's true that some players left over ganking (which I certainly wouldn't call PvP; would you?), but that many left because of the lack of a suitable endgame.  More yet are probably going to leave if the 1.7 changes turn out to be the final nail in the 1v1 PvP coffin.

Anyway, I've been trying out Navy Field these days, and I can see why that game works, as opposed to PotBS. It doesn't aspire to offering an endgame -- it's essentially what you see is what you get.  Small vessels still have a purpose in battles, whereas in PotBS they don't (they're just too weak to remain on the board for long).

PotBS made a series of design mistakes very early on (such as those red circles), which gave rise to a certain approach to PvP which left many dissatisfied.

 

1V1 PvP is the flaw of the game.  To many player refusing to work together for a common good.  There shoud never be 1v1 in this game.

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Originally posted by Wolfenpride
Im curious in people opinions on why this game didn't really take off?
I see alot of negativity directed towards the game as well, why is that?

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Christ the list of fuckups is so long its hard to believable. Where to begin...

1) A PvP game that encourages you NOT to PvP as the rewards for PvPing were far far less than the huge risk involved (unless you sailed a free or cheap ship). Took them how long to put in insurance? EVE Online did it right from day 1.

2) A very boring grind to 50, full of cookie cutter missions.

3) Ganking of newbies. Nothing says like "I dont think I should be playing this game" like getting ganked often and repeatedly early on in a players experience.

4) Port battles that would occur at 3am or stupid off hours.

5) No way of determining who would get into the Port Battles. The lottery system was bugged/broken from the get go, where players with the least points had a better chance than those with the most.

6) No built in voice communication, and a gameplay system that made it extremely difficult to use the chat system while trying to steer and fight, would result in very messy large scale battles.

7) An ass incomplete and buggy economic port flipping system added at the 11th hour that received almost no testing and was so flawed people could almost instantly flip ports without any actual combat. This also resulted in some noob ports getting flipped (and they were supposed to be VERY difficult to flip). Read the part above about Ganking of noobs...

8) Devs that wouldnt listen to beta testers. Really, they didnt, because almost nothing we asked for was done (or done in any timely manner). Instead they added stupid things like "raids" which would last many hours and were extremely difficult. The kicker, NO ONE asked for them or wanted to do them when they came out.

9) Open sea graphics engine which looked so mediocre and dated it was a shame. The sea was an endless texture/animation repeating over and over. Fugly to say the least.

10) Avatar combat. Uhm, yeah, lolz.

11) Avatar combat in port battles. We CRIED when they added this BS. It was just stupid. It didnt work well. Endlessly resurrecting people? In a 1720s simulation? Most retarded thing in the game.

12) Jack of all trades, master of none. They tried to do everything at once, and appeal to everyone at once. The #1 most important thing when making a video game is to appeal to a specific audience and make them very happy, and then branch off to appeal to other audiences. Unless you are blizzard and have 100+ million in your pocket and an infinite schedule to do whatever you want, FOCUS ON SOMETHING AND DO IT RIGHT.

13) And the worst thing about the game, what made me quit, Navy officers becoming INVINCIBLE and UNSINKABLE for a minute and 45 seconds. Thats right, for almost 2 minutes you could not sink. Simply pop Invincibility, and when it wore off, pop Final Defense. Voila. Use that time to sail away from the enemy line, repair, and sail right back in. Privateers? Freetraders? Liability. Bring lots of navy! Like cats! 9 lives!

This is the only game in history that was much more fun in beta than in retail.