Profile: JK-Kanosi
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• • English Version of the Darkfall's Preview

  • I guess I won't be playing this game. The class I play and aesthetic looks play a large role in my enjoyment. I was under the impression that you could be a Battlemage if you wanted, which is personally my favorite class. I like to wear plate armor, wield a sword, and cast spells when at range. Obviously I can't do that in DF, since I will have unequip my sword and equip a staff to cast a spell. I was excited for this game, hell, you can research my rating comments if you don't believe me.

    Right now, I am playing a Death Knight which is almost exactly how I like my melee/spellcaster hybrids to play like. I have a sword in my right hand, casting spells with my left. Both attacks are strong, and I look good doing it. Seems like WoW has more flexibility when it comes to the type of class I want to play. Yes, perhaps I can use a wide range of skills in DF, but none of that means crap if I can't weild the weapons I want while I'm doing it.

    Some of you might think I'm being trivial, but it's as important to me as FFA PvP is to you. I could care less if corpses are lootable or not and people not playing a game because of no FFA seems trivial to me. See my point? We all play games for various reasons, being able to play the type of class I want with the look I want is paramount to my enjoyment of the game. Next comes the setting, then choice of gameplay, and finally customization.

  • Posted: 11/21/08 5:29 PM
    Darkfall
• • Why the Quest Grind is becoming so popular.

  • Originally posted by solarine
    

    Simple: human beings relate to stories and quests are the only reliable form of giving you stories in an MMORPG. Trying to tackle the topic of quests by taking it out of the context of story completely and referring to it as merely "handholding" makes no sense.

    I do read the quests. If I don't like what I'm reading, it'll put me off the game. If I do, it'll pull me in. It's one of the more enjoyable aspects of playing an RPG for me. Apparently "shallow" in MMOs has become a misnomer. Almost by definition there is more "depth" in an MMORPG with stories than a simulation of mindless mass fauna destruction.

    
     

    QFT.

    I was talking to a veteran WoW player the other day who was bitching about the DK quests. It was 6 hours of quests that sunk you knee deep into death knight lore. It was really fun and the climax was a huge battle, where at the end a lot of talking went on between two NPC's. Very engaging and entertaining, but this veteran was bitching because he wanted the NPC's to hurry up so he could get the reward.

    I confronted him on this, after all, the expansion just came out a day ago at the time, so he shouldn't be burnt out on the content. I asked him if he cared at all about the story and lore and he said he doesn't read that stuff off the website. I told him there is plenty of quests in WoW that draw you into the lore and he had no idea which quests I was talking about as I named off many that I experienced on my way to lvl 55. He never heard of them and admitted to skipping the quest dialogue, because he can careless about the lore or story and just wants the loot.

    My point is that the lore and story is there, but people aren't patient enough to read it. There's a reason people in this forum feel like their grinding while doing quests, it's because they aren't reading their quests and getting into the lore. I didn't like WoW either at first. I felt it was a bad quest grind. However, after playing Warcraft 3 this past summer, it changed my tune quite a bit. Now I understood everything that was happening in the quests, and knew who these NPC's were and their significance.

    Some quests can be boring in WoW, but they still have story surrounding it. Not all stories are entertaining for all people, or else there wouldn't be so many types of genre's of books out there. The same goes for MMORPGs, except players are driven to complete every quest in the game, so they are inadvertently lead into stories they will find boring. I think WoW has a good quest system and balance of group v. solo play. It's just one of the many things that makes WoW a great game that it draws in so many people. LoTRO also has good quests, it just doesn't have the little things that make WoW a cut above the rest.

  • Posted: 11/20/08 11:10 AM
    General Discussion
• • Why the Quest Grind is becoming so popular.

  • Originally posted by Waterlily
    

    Originally posted by paulscott
    

    It allows the developers to send players everywhere and anywhere.

    breaks up the boredom since players aren't always in the same spot.

    spreads out the player base allowing the servers to load balance more efficently

    allows the developers to say see we have a developed world with hunderds and thousands of quests.

    allows the developers to 'herd' the players from one spot to another so you're with people your level.

    attaches signifigance to areas players wouldn't ever want to be before experiance venders were there.

    ...

    I know I'm missing a least a dozen other things.

    
     

    Levels already did all that. They already directed you towards mobs you could handle.

    Questing is there because anyone can follow something which directs them from point A to point B. A quest which tells someone to get 10 pieces of skin from a wolf and bring it back is doable by any child, how dumb or intelligent they are, or how skillfull at the game, doesn't matter. They will get XP no matter what.

    It takes away any reason to form a capable group. WoW caps any skill to level because there is always a way to gain items and xp through quests. They reach an enormous audience with it, but their game is very shallow.

    
     

    There are group quests splattered throughout your solo quest grind, and instance dungeon quests. Plus there is Raiding at end game. I just did an Onyxia raid 2 days ago as a lvl 64 and it's anything but easy. Look at questing as a easy and relaxing way to get into the game and learn your character, because group instances and raids get harder as the game goes on.

  • Posted: 11/20/08 10:53 AM
    General Discussion
• • Why the Quest Grind is becoming so popular.

  • Originally posted by Ihmotepp
    

    I was playing Fallout 3. It's a solo RPG, like KOTOR if you've played that. Single player RPG's are all about questing.

    There is some "grind", that is killing random Mobs that are not in a quest, but 90% of the single player roleplaying  game is a bunch of quests. It's usually linear, but it can be non-linear like KOTOR. There are a bunch of quests on KOTOR, but it doesn't matter what order you do them in.

    Good single player RPG quests are fun. They have good stories, and can be very involved. You can spend a lot of time reading quest dialog, lore, and doing a quest over and over again till you succeed. Basically, if you die attempting the quest, you can just do it again till you figure out how to do it without dying.

    But, while the quests are very involved, fun, and in depth, there's limited replayability. It's like reading a good book. Sure, you can read it again, but you probably will want to read something new since you already know the story.

    Now grinding, as far as I know comes from MMORPGs. Instead of following a quest, you just kill Mobs over and over. Sounds boring right? But it's not if you're in a group. You can organize a good group, everyone can cooperate and play their roles, and chat during downtime. Grinding with a good group can be a lot of fun. DaoC had grinding and quests, but the quests didn't give you THAT much xp over grinding. I preferred to grind whenever possible, because the grouping was fun.

    But now games are moving away from grinding, to giving much more XP for completing Quests, which some people call "quest grinding". Why? I think it's because MMORPGs are becoming more like single player rpgs, only you can chat with people while you play, and occaisionally group.

    In other words, you want it casual friendly, which means you don't require a group to play the game. So, you put in more and more quests, so the game is more and more like a single player roleplaying game.

    All you need is some better more in depth quests, like you see in KOTOR or Fallout 3, and what you'll have is a massive online single player game, that people can play at the same time.  Of course you can still group once in a while, if you want to.

    
     

    It's really simple, quest grinding is popular, because most people are casual gamers who prefer to jump right into a game and have fun, not wait for a group to form before setting off to grind. Questing in particular is popular, because it gives you a distracting (entertaining) and extremely rewarding (xp, items, money) way to grind to max level.

    DAoC broke my cherry with MMORPGs, so I am accustomed to grouping for xp, and I loved it. It made for some good conversations and it was never really dull, like quest grinding can be at times.

    With that said, I think WoW did a good jod with the balance of group v. solo content. Every zone has a story line to follow with some weaker stories surrounding it. It all ties into the lore, which a lot of people has admitted to not giving two shits about, but I love it.

  • Posted: 11/20/08 10:46 AM
    General Discussion
• • Would you purchase DarkFall without an Open Beta/Free Trial?

  • Originally posted by xzyax
    

    Obviously not a lot of votes yet, but I'm curious if one of those that voted Yes would like to expound upon their reasoning? 

    Given what we know of the MMO genre, I guess I'm surprised there would be even 1 who would buy not just DarkFall... but ANY MMO without an Open Beta or Free Trial. 

    Perhaps the promise of what DarkFall could be is enough?  I guess I just don't have that kind of trust anymore.  Hopefully the DarkFall Devs will do the right thing as they've stated time and again that they will... we'll all find out soon. 

    
     

    I voted "Yes " for the same reason I buy a single player game without playing the demo. First, $50 isn't going to break me. Second, I can rely on reviews from others that play it, since I'm experienced enough in the genre to know what type of game I like. If players are reviewing the game to be what I like, I might give it a try eventually.

  • Posted: 11/20/08 12:51 AM
    Darkfall