Profile: Umbral
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• • EverQuest II: A Look at The Shadow Odyssey

  • Originally posted by jimmyman99
    

    The keyword that you use is "you" would say Vozvrashchenie is a great movie. You are just one person. You are being subjective when you say Vozvrashchenie is a better movie. It is your opinion that it is better. Not that is theres something wrong with that.

     -Yes, when I say "to me is a great movie" I am expressing only the fact that I like this movie, but I wanted  to show you I can express that without saying titanic is a crap movie because I dont like it.

     If we use your logic, you would say titanic is "better" than Vozvrashcheniye because it is more popular, just to show you that the concept of "more popular" is better is not a rational argument all the time.

     In my point of view Vozvrashcheniye is better because it is more artistic , unique and expressive, this is just my opinion.

     Some people would say, Titanic is better because it is "easy" to watch, more people know Titanic, so, would be this affirmation the "rational" and correct one? In my point of view no, in your point of view yes, but in a trully cold and rational observation, both are good in different ways, it doesnt really matter wich one is more popular... see? We can say the same about MMOs without use personal taste as base.

     

    NO. Why do peoplekeep insisting on that? I do NOT like most mainstream movies/music. Most of stuff I like is NOT mainstream. I like The Journeymen, the 4400, Daybreak, Dexter, Scrubs, 24, Heroes, etc. Some of them are fairly mainstream, but some arent. However, I cant say that Daybreak is the BEST series. Well, it is the BEST for me. But it is my personal opinion. If I were to say it is the BEST, then I bet there would be a thousand other voices saying otherwise.

    Then, would you agree that the most popular serie would not be exacly the best serie? As you know, some good series like OZ and Curb your Enthusiasm are not made to be as popular as OC.

    PS: I did not like Titanic at all. but I can't say its a bad movie since, obviously, it has won many awards. That is the objective way to see things. If you were to ask me my personal opinion, id say the movie stank. You must separate your own "you" from your opinion.  Thats the only way to be objective.

     I never said a popular movie or game should be bad, this is the misconception you got since the beggining, when I say EQ2 expansions are great, Riddick is a great game, Silent Hill and King´s Bounty are great games, Im not saying Gears of War is a crap game. The one that said if someting is more popular it will be better was you.

    In any case, you have pointed out on many occasions that this is not a good way to compare products, be that EQ2 expansion or anything else. And yet you haven't provided any objective alternatives (other then rational reasoning). Please be so kind and explain.

    Lets focus in the expansion, hours and hours of content for people that play EQ2, great dungeons, group play focus, nice locations and long term entertainment are enough to say, EQ2 has great expansions.

    The last wow expansion sold much more than EOF and TOS together, because of that EQ2 expansions are inferior? Not at all.

    Are wow expansions bad because they are popular? No.

    Forgeting about taste, both games have good expansions, I do prefer EQ2 expansions, you may prefer WoW expansions, but in the end, you cant say WoW expansions are better because they are more popular, most of people outside MMOs dont even know EQ2, this is when marketing, accessibility and brand make a difference and those aspects are not always related to "quality".

    All this started when someone said EQ2 expansions are useless, with so much content, lore, challenge and fun for a stable playerbase and new players why would EQ2 expansions be useless? Because it is less popular than WoW? In your logic unfortunately, yes.

    Unpopularity can be even good among mmorpgs because it results in an unite and more pleasant community.

     

     

    
     

  • Posted: 11/21/08 11:33 PM
    General Discussion
• • EverQuest II: A Look at The Shadow Odyssey

  • Originally posted by xbellx777
    

     

    whats wrong with reading and believing in the Bible? i do and i dont agree at all with what jimmyman99 said

    
     

    Nothing is wrong with believing in the Bible, I only used it because it is a popular book ( for obvious reasons).

    ...

  • Posted: 11/21/08 8:47 PM
    General Discussion
• • EverQuest II: A Look at The Shadow Odyssey

  •  

     

    Originally posted by jimmyman99
    

     

     

    Look at the movie categories, lets say you only had 3 types of awards: "best male actor", "best female actor" and "best child actor". how would you define which movie is better if only 2 movies are competing? Obviously the one with 2 awards. THATS objective.  

    
     

     

    You are wrong again if you take popularity in this circustance.

    See

    • Venice Film Festival 2003 Won 'CinemAvvenire' Award Best First Film; Golden Lion; Luigi De Laurentiis Award; SIGNIS Award; Sergio Trasatti Award / Cottbus Film Festival of Young East European Cinema 2003 Won Award of the Ecumenical Jury; Special Prize Feature Film Competition For best direction
    • César Awards, France 2004 Nominated César Best Foreign Film (Meilleur film étranger)
    • European Film Awards 2003 Won European Discovery of the Year
    • Fajr Film Festival 2004 Won Crystal Simorgh International Competition: Best Film
    • Gijón International Film Festival 2003 Won Best Actor: Ivan Dobronravov, Tied with Vladimir Garin for Vozvrashcheniye (2003) and Konstantin Lavronenko; Best Screenplay; Special Jury Award
    • Ljubljana International Film Festival 2003 Won Kingfisher Award
    • Nika Awards 2004 Won Nika Best Cinematographer; Best Film
    • Palm Springs International Film Festival 2004 Won FIPRESCI Prize
    • Russian Guild of Film Critics 2003 Won Golden Aries Best Cinematography; Best Debut; Best Film
    • Thessaloniki Film Festival 2003 Won FIPRESCI Prize - Special Mention
    • Tromsø International Film Festival 2004 Won Audience Award

    These are the awards of the movie Vosvrashchenie.

    You and probably most of people from US here doesnt know this movie.(it is a great movie by the way).

    But Titanic a very popular movie won 11 oscars, an oscar is a very propular (or you can call for the masses) award.

    So wich one will be the best to you? The popular Titanic? Or the expressive and unique Vosvrashchenie?

    Using your so called logic, you would say Titanic, then you would say, because no one here knows Vosvrashchenie, but no one knows not only because it is not american, but because they had more than 50 times less money to use into publicity.

    Me? I would not say wich one is better, I would only say Vosvrashchenie is a great great movie.

    And by the record, I asked in my first reply for that person to explain why EQ2 expansions were useless and then said the "numbers" argument would not cut it, for some reason you introduced the "what is the best and what is good and what is not".

  • Posted: 11/21/08 6:51 PM
    General Discussion
• • EverQuest II: A Look at The Shadow Odyssey

  • Originally posted by jimmyman99
    

    Originally posted by Umbral
    

     

    Fit in where? Im trying to be objective. If you were to ask me my PERSONAL opinion about ANYTHING, it would most likely differ from the one when I try to be objective.

    You already know your statistic is to simplistic to be taken seriously.

    To belive popularity makes quality is a way to fit in into the majority.

    You contradict yourself here. If they aren't "masses" material, then they are NOT popular. See again you are separating yourself from the masses. Last time I checked, the whole human race is one big "mass". Unless you are a separate species and not part of us, "masses".

    No there is no contradiction, ultra popular products are different than products well known by a niche, dont try to win an argument using the same word with different meaning.

    What other way to objectively compare 2 products? Asking people? I wanna see how you can ask for 100% accurate opinion of 100% earth's population. We must go by the numbers if we were to filter out "opinions".

    You cant do this if you ask people that only know and experienced the entertainment product A and doesnt know the product B, see how your statistic about popularity and what is the "best" is almost silly?

    If you ask all the manking wich taste better, cow or moose you will get the cow answer because most of people just dont know how moose taste.

    Am I trying to fit in or are you trying to stand out?  Oh my god, im NOT listening to mainstream music, Im not watching mainstream movies, im not using a PC... im not a lamb! You are trying to stand out so hard you are separating yourself from the world and you value your one ego more then everybody else. If there were only 10 people in the world and you were one of them, youd go against them just becuase your very own opinion is only one of ten, and if things go not the way you wanted youd be mad at them for making you do things everyone else wants.

    You are even more confused about what I said than about statistics, see, I didnt atack mainstream and masses products, I dont care what you like or dislike, I never said EQ2 is better than WoW or Naked Lunch is better than Batman Begings, I only said how it is good to know that there is a EQ2, there is a Naked Lunch.

    Remember, I didnt atack what is for the masses, sure I claim now and ever that Victor Hugo is better than any soap opera, but I cant talk about it with you, would be pointless...Remember, you are the one atacking what is not popular, meaning if is not for the masses and if you are not with the majority, than, it is no good.

    I disagree with you and Im not the only one, the main issue is, you truly belive in your simplistic logic even when some people showed how flawed your logic is.

     

    
     

     

     

    
     

     

  • Posted: 11/21/08 6:36 PM
    General Discussion
• • EverQuest II: A Look at The Shadow Odyssey

  • Originally posted by jimmyman99
    

    Originally posted by vesavius
    
    

    No, your wrong.

    The X sells more then Y, so X is better argument is the utterly worst way to measure success.

    realy? I hear all those "no you are wrong" and such. But none of you gives me an OBJECTIVE way to identify the "best" product.

     

    Here is why your pseudo statistic point of view is wrong.

    You cant formulate an statistic with such simplistic values, you need to put marketing and acessibility and more variations to the equation.

    Just to be clear, you are the one using the "best x" term.

    Just an idiotic example, a movie company use 3.000.000 bananas ( a large part of bananas were used to pay for marketing and publicity) to produce movie X, this movie is very "popular" and sell 10.000.000 copies, then the same company made a small cult movie with almost no publicity with 20.000 bananas, this movie sells 1.000.000... you see, in your eyes, you will just scream, movie x "is so popular, it is a sucess", but in the end the small movie without publicity is more sucessful even with less popularity.

    There is not ONE way to identify the "best" product, a product is not "the best" in all circumstances, it is even more relative when we talk about entertainment products that have personal experiences and artistic aspects in it...really I dont think you are serious, if you are joking with such simplistic arguments I think I just fell in it.

    Your comments about culture are tottaly  not accurate, but I prefer stay silent about it.

     

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    About this expansion, I hope the end game Dungeons are as good as EOF Dungeons, I still think MMCastle is  one of the most challenging and interesting Dungeons I ever saw in a MMORPG.

     

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  • Posted: 11/21/08 6:13 PM
    General Discussion